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Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

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Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#391

Post by nsonha »

ehnto wrote: post #335
akiselev wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my experience visiting, there were lots of jobs that were "nice to have". Like the man making sure people don't fall in the hole, or the person standing by the carpark exit making sure the way is clear. You could probably do without them, but it's a nice thing to have. How would liability play out for the construction company in a Japanese court? It's already a low margin competitive industry so passing risk m…

I don't know the answer to that sorry, you're right to point it out though. Perhaps there is actually some prior court case that defined a liability to make those individuals necessary to be compliant. In Australia we certainly don't have those people, construction companies just use a few signs, some cones and barricades and that's all that is required to be compliant. If someone falls in the hole they shouldn't hav…

We definitely do, and I'm not against having extra people when it comes to safety. Simply putting on some signs is not enough, what about children?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#392

Post by iso1631 »

ehnto wrote: post #326
kqr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I think what passes for appropriately staffed in the West is actually understaffed. What's called optimal staffing in the West is just at capacity, which is a nice way of saying "with no spare capacity." Of course, with Japan being the land of just-in-time, one could argue that spare capacity is bad -- but that's an oversimplification. Necessary spare capacity is good. What's bad is not being able to addres…

From my experience visiting, there were lots of jobs that were "nice to have". Like the man making sure people don't fall in the hole, or the person standing by the carpark exit making sure the way is clear. You could probably do without them, but it's a nice thing to have. There's lots of examples of that, people doing things that you would see brutally optimized out of western city and those cities I feel are worse…

In my country the government used to run the railways, but it had been run down for decades and was at the verge of closing all but the busiest commuter lines into the capital. It was privatized, and since then usage has skyrocketed (well pre covid) to over twice the level pre-privatization, so clearly something's gone well.

The privitization is split into different companies, the best having had a 30 year contract to revitilise their line, and they've done wonders with it, while one of the worst was (pre covid) run to the exact orders of the government

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#393

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

cableshaft wrote: post #190
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green Tech isn't the savior we need. Flat out there needs to be a consumption revolution worldwide. Even if say we were all driving electric cars, on top of the energy required for normal everyday life now, you're also adding powering those cars. The necessary "reliable" green energy generation for that to happen is nothing short of trillions of dollars (when I say reliable, I mean exactly as you use it today). Yes I…

> People altogether need to stop driving so much, spending so much, and living more modestly. Yeah I believe I said that when I said we need to make large sacrifices, I just didn't specify what those sacrifices were exactly. I don't think green tech is the end-all be-all. I honestly think we're kind of fucked either way (if anything I was holding back, I've been reading some pretty bleak shit about how impossible thi…

One reason we don't do nuclear is not enough people are skilled in it, we don't want to invest in building them after just having decommissioned two, and they are the ultimate NIMBY powerplant. Tell people there's a coal plant and they may get upset. Tell them there's a nuclear power plant after just having seen the HBO series Chernobyl and guess how fast they'll be knocking down the city governments door to not allow it. You're spot on really. People just don't trust it and there's nothing we can do about it.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#394

Post by MeinBlutIstBlau »

SilverRed wrote: post #278
MeinBlutIstBlau wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Green Tech isn't the savior we need. Flat out there needs to be a consumption revolution worldwide. Even if say we were all driving electric cars, on top of the energy required for normal everyday life now, you're also adding powering those cars. The necessary "reliable" green energy generation for that to happen is nothing short of trillions of dollars (when I say reliable, I mean exactly as you use it today). Yes I…

I think what gets people so stuck on this problem is that nothing solves it. Everything is only x% of the problem, everyone is only a tiny contributor. We need to solve everything and all the percents add up to solving it. Green energy is not the end of the solution but it is part of it. It's also quite a big part of it.

It is not unless we can reliably store energy, which we still can't. If there was some way we could store megawatts of power on reserve, it would offset the unreliability. But when you have 7 billion + people in the world, you can't stop what's already in motion.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#395

Post by toomanybeersies »

greyman wrote: post #348
onion2k wrote: post #213

I think a lot of the replies in the thread so far have focused on tech (understandably, this is HN after all) but that's missing something obvious - the 4 day week would apply to everyone. In tech it's very likely someone going from 5 days to 4 days could still achieve the same amount of actual work. As other commenters have said, many tech workers don't do productive work all the time they're present. Retail workers…

What I find fascinating is why government should have such an authority to be able to mandate this.

Why shouldn't a government have the authority to mandate the working conditions for its citizens?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#396

Post by toomanybeersies »

paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

> hour long lunches

Are one hour lunches not the norm? I've always worked 0900-1730, with an hour long lunch.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#397

Post by rtkwe »

nsonha wrote: post #265
Animats wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you would treat devs like warehouse workers right now,all devs would run away. I mean force them to be 100% effective all the 8 hours and track every move they make. CleverControl employee monitoring pitch: "This software offers powerful features: keylogging, screen recording, live viewing, remote settings, clipboard control, Skype monitoring, and more. The software records time that was spent on this or that acti…

can they already do this with all the data they have in github? Not that I would endorse it, but that sounds like better data for tracking. Instead of enforcing time you enforce activities.

No this is massively more invasive than checking your commit history. Github doesn't know moment to moment what you're doing while these invasive tracking programs do.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#398

Post by dukeyukey »

xwdv wrote: post #27
paxys wrote: post #17

It's an open secret at least in the tech world that absolutely no one is putting in a productive 40 hours of work a week. This was true well before the pandemic and is more pronounced than ever now. Everyone needs to be "present" for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, but spends their time in pointless meetings, preparing documents and powerpoints that no one will read, faux social/teambuilding events, hour long lunches, g…

Indeed, there’s a sort of Moneyball aspect here. Companies that can accurately pay out only for productive time instead of assuming all 40 hours of a work week are spent producing will make huge savings in payroll, increasing cost efficiency and making it feasible to hire larger cross functional teams. A software engineer probably only really works about 20 hours a week. That’s a 50% savings right there.

Equally speaking, if I realise how to fix that bug when I'm out with friends one night, should I present my employer with an extra bill for those hours spent drinking and relaxing, putting my mind in a state where it could fix the issue?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#399

Post by Twisol »

Kiro wrote: post #361
SilverRed wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can see. These front desk jobs exist as theft/crime deterrent and to handle edge cases. Sure you could fully automate fuel stations but who is going to call the police when kids start spray painting the windows unless you have someone sitting at a desk watching cctv all day. And who is going to deal with customers who are trying to report something is wrong with a pump. These jobs have already been automa…

> Sure you could fully automate fuel stations Where are you from? I thought fuel stations in most Western countries were fully automated already. In Sweden there are loads with no people at all but even the ones with a store you just pay at the pump. You only go inside if you need to buy something else. Very strange example to use and kind of invalidates your whole point.

Apparently, it's illegal to pump your own gas in New Jersey. [0]

[0] https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/74549/why-cant-you-pump-...

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#400

Post by InitialLastName »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #288
SilverRed wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can see. These front desk jobs exist as theft/crime deterrent and to handle edge cases. Sure you could fully automate fuel stations but who is going to call the police when kids start spray painting the windows unless you have someone sitting at a desk watching cctv all day. And who is going to deal with customers who are trying to report something is wrong with a pump. These jobs have already been automa…

> but who is going to call the police when kids start spray painting the windows unless you have someone sitting at a desk watching cctv all day. A neural network trained to classify spray-painting kids?

I can't wait until short window-washers start getting arrested.
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