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Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

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Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#391

Post by chrononaut »

rhacker wrote: post #184
mjevans wrote: post #35

Given the article's mention of Rural vs Urban I lean towards the belief that this is driven by a sense of both conservative values in government and probably a lack of understanding in how the government of the people serves the people. More precisely how taxes and math work. The GAO and similar offices should do a better job of preparing reports on where every collected tax dollar is being spent; both in the physica…

I own land in a rural area (house coming in maybe a year) and I have spoken to the neighbors. For the most part it's little things actually. Rules that the major cities deal with, like not being allowed to put up a specific kind of fence because the bureaucrats in the city look at .1 acre plots of land and don't like how certain fences look - where out here we're dealing with 5 to 100 acres (and in some cases a 40000…

> Rules that the major cities deal with, like not being allowed to put up a specific kind of fence because the bureaucrats in the city look at .1 acre plots of land and don't like how certain fences look - where out here we're dealing with 5 to 100 acres (and in some cases a 40000 acres of land).

Wait, these rules aren't something that are enacted and enforced at an individual city / town level? These are state-wide zoning(?) rules being applied universally to all jurisdictions in the state? If so, that does seem obnoxious..

(I don't own land so I am very unfamiliar in how zoning regulation plays itself out, so apologies ahead of time.)

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#392

Post by ghaff »

mrcartmenez wrote: post #386
briefcomment wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what suburb do you have only two neighbors within walking distance?

Does America have a concept of walking distance?

It's a country road. There are no sidewalks. So no. It's not something you walk along. (And hardly unique to the US.) The ESRI categorization is ex-urban. The basic point is that the census bureau categorizes areas as urban unless they're really rural, as in small and pretty far from an urban center.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#393

Post by rhexs »

vineyardmike wrote: post #381
URSpider94 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

I drove through a few of the counties (eg. baker) mentioned in the article to visit a dog breeder, and the breeder had (nearly) her own highway exit. Complete with 2 overpasses. Must cost millions to build and maintain. Her house was the only one visible for as far as you could see from that exit. All i could think about was how much better her life was for that exit and how all her total tax income forever could nev…

How many families are you going to feed with that extra million you saved now that the numerous farms you couldn’t see from the highway overpass can no longer ship food?

“I have always lived in very liberal, expensive, coastal cities” — please, please venture out of your safe bubble more, for the sake of all of us. Go tour a real farm, not the local micro-organic commune one nearby. See how they work.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#394

Post by nickff »

lainga wrote: post #385
nickff wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how this would be a 'bad precedent' or 'problem'. Why is keeping arbitrary borders established over a hundred years ago more important than better representation and sortition?

The balance of seats in the Senate

>" The balance of seats in the Senate "

Do you mean the House? I think the Senate would still have 2 senators per state, and state-level electoral results are unlikely to change if an alienated minority from one state secedes, in favor of joining a more (politically) similar state.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#395

Post by rootusrootus »

icelancer wrote: post #333
URSpider94 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would love to see the data, but from the data I have seen, the data conflict with the popular (populist) narrative. A lot of people in America seem to believe that the hardworking "real Americans" in the middle of the country are subsidizing the poorly-run coastal liberal enclaves. In reality, the money almost always flows in the other direction; taxpayers in cities are subsidizing the rural-dwellers. This has noth…

Often forgotten about "subsidization" of one group to another - which area is more likely to have higher participation in the military and armed forces, and deaths in foreign conflict zones?

Judging by the racial makeup of the military, probably inner city neighborhoods have a disproportionate amount of military participation.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#396

Post by DFHippie »

srswtf123 wrote: post #368
SllX wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have have that every two years: it’s called elections.

If every state is gerrymandered beyond all sanity, are any of our elections valid?

Elections for senators and governors are, or at least are more valid: no electoral college and no gerrymandering of districts. Of course, vote suppression is still there, and simply lying, but it's an improvement.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#397

Post by grillvogel »

dawnerd wrote: post #259
pcan77 wrote: post #4

Why not just move to Idaho then? Or some other red state?

I've talked to a lot of these people in passing and they honestly believe Oregon is a red state but is being cheated by Portland. They always point to land area thats red as proof.

and your counter argument is?

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#399

Post by chrononaut »

ModernMech wrote: post #376
torstenvl wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But how? Drugs are already illegal. Now do automatic weapons, straw purchases, felons getting guns, etc. Both sides have their political bugaboos about problems that haven't been completely solved by existing approaches. Both sides want to try something different by cracking down on their own citizens; both sides want to try something different by lessening the burdens on good people who don't hurt others. Unfortun…

I'm sorry, but what does this have to do with guns? I don't think anyone in this thread brought up guns at all.

They are providing an example of another situation that has been difficult as the two parties can take polar opposite positions on (1) whether something is an issue, and (2) how to solve that issue, often without understanding each other's view point and how they came to that view point.

I see the outside reference fitting here.

Re: Five Oregon counties vote to leave state, create 'Greater Idaho'

#400

Post by Ericson2314 »

Thrymr wrote: post #378
Ericson2314 wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, it doesn't matter what state the representative is associated with, and baring rounding errors the number of representatives would stay roughly the same? The more worrisome effect is on the electoral college and the senate, but I think tying this to DC statehood would get rid of that.

> it doesn't matter what state the representative is associated with, and baring rounding errors the number of representatives would stay roughly the same? The [Republican] Idaho legislature would get to gerrymand the districts instead of the [Democratic] Oregon legislature.

Fair point I didn't think that far. But now as I do, per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho%27s_congressional_distri... they are all Republican by wide margin already, so there's no real gerrymandering to do.
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