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My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

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Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#391

Post by colecut »

tester756 wrote: post #369
colecut wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?" This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person.

>This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person. oh c'mon, it's insanely naive, let's dont try to push narration that those things do not happen

When do they happen, and why did they happen?

Edit: since I wasn't clear, I am looking for examples of when this has happened to you, or your friend, or anyone that you have heard of...

Edit 2: also by "pretty much" does not happen, I don't mean never happens. But I think the rate at which it happens is probably a rounding error, and I think a lot of people would rather just say "oh well they could be lying" before even bothering to read what they have to say.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#392

Post by globular-toast »

Accacin wrote: post #372
globular-toast wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I can't believe a woman would be naïve enough to share a room with a man. For crying out loud, if a man invites you to a room with him alone he wants to have sex. It's that simple. I think boys already are told what is acceptable and what isn't. We got taught, in no uncertain terms, what would be considered rape or sexual assault. But I think people are afraid to mention the obvious when it comes to things li…

I'm not sure if I'm different or not, but I've shared a room alone with female friends on multiple occasions (when younger) with literally nothing happening even when we shared a bed. Obviously, we were long time friends and this would be different if I was meeting a conference speaker, but as usual, nothing is as black or white as "men only want sex". However, I do agree with your point. Boys need to be taught what…

I've walked down the street before and not stolen things from people's houses. I assume you leave your front door unlocked at night?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#393

Post by Pfhreak »

eloff wrote: post #375
Pfhreak wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not vague. Consent is an enthusiastic and unambiguous yes. Was there an enthusiastic and unambiguous yes? You have consent. Was there not an enthusiastic and unambiguous yes? You do not have consent.

I think we can agree on that. I'm not arguing about what consent is, I'm arguing about whether you bear responsibility for what happens to you if you put yourself in a vulnerable position, give consent without being of sound mind, and then regret it later. I think 1) that's pretty dumb to put yourself in that situation, and 2) you do have partial responsibility for what happened.

Sure, but do you believe that's what's described here? I don't see anything that suggests that consent was ever given.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#394

Post by suifbwish »

nawgz wrote: post #315
suifbwish wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also plenty of stories of the legal system working as intended. You can create any narrative you want from selectively paying attention to data.

Yes, sure. Instead, by holistically paying attention to data, we can see that rape is a wildly underprosecuted crime[0], and thus we can stop acting like there are no possible barriers obstructing these victims from justice. Actually, it’s kind of hilarious when I put it this way... you’re the one selectively looking at the data to justify inaction. [0]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than...

It’s clear that emotion clouds judgement on this issue more so than even murder.

Did you just cite Washington Post as an authoritative source?

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#395

Post by dimgl »

throway98752343 wrote: post #293
epicureanideal wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes character assassination is coordinated. I personally only slightly increase the probability of something being true when multiple accusers come forward. I still want to see proof. What if a bunch of your ex-girlfriends or ex-boyfriends got together and decided to ruin your life with accusations?

If a bunch of people who once had close, perhaps even loving relationships with you all come forward and risk their own reputation to say you're bad enough to warrant criminal action, I'd say it's on you to prove them wrong. Or maybe it's all a grand conspiracy, in which case let's follow the money and see that it leads... nowhere.

There doesn’t need to be a grand conspiracy to want to smear someone. Additionally, what happened to innocent until PROVEN guilty? Allegations are not proof.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#396

Post by marcinzm »

varjag wrote: post #201
marcinzm wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally count yourself lucky to be alive and then fly home in a few days.

So you suggest the victims should just shrug it off.

I mean they could post on social media about their account and see if the community acts.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#397

Post by kelnos »

JPKab wrote: post #137
nicklecompte wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Imagine a letter like this targeted at you one day, except unlike Mr. Pretty, you are innocent. “Imagine that you were convicted of murder but, unlike John Wayne Gacy, you were innocent.” Seriously what is the point of comments like this? False convictions are real and very very bad, but I know very few social justice advocates who are opposed to locking up serial killers. Likewise, the existence of unscrupulous pe…

John Wayne Gacy was convicted in a criminal court of law, with rules, where he was presumed innocent until proven guilty. You attempt to draw a connection, but it's a false analogy out of the gate.

I mostly agree with the point you're making, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to assume that the jury actually really presumed Gacy innocent at the start of his trial.

Like everyone, they were certainly biased toward assuming his guilt in the run-up to the trial.

No system is perfect, and humans are fallible. But that's kinda the underlying issue with this entire discussion: if she had gone to the authorities (especially if only years after the incident in question, and also consider that the incident happened in a different country), would there be any legal remedy here? I think it's pretty likely that nothing material would have come of that.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#398

Post by dmit »

eloff wrote: post #351
dmit wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So the victim has no responsibility if blood alcohol level is too high for good judgment, but the perpetrator is responsible no matter their blood alcohol level and judgment? Exactly. That's why they're called 'victim' and 'perpetrator'. If the victim got triple blackout drunk, the only person they'd hurt is themselves. But the rapist, in addition to physical damage, inflicts deep, lasting psychological damage upon…

Ok, let's say it's a man and a women, she's the "perpetrator" and he gives consent. She's his boss and they're on a business trip and drank too much at the bar. In the morning he feels taken advantage of and deeply regrets it because he's married. Do you still stand by that?

> she's the "perpetrator" and he gives consent

If "he gives consent", then she isn't a perpetrator. By definition.

If one of the parties gets drunk, they can't give consent. Again, by definition.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#399

Post by tester756 »

colecut wrote: post #391
tester756 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This just pretty much does not happen without reason, and I think it is safe to say that if it did, you are probably a terrible person. oh c'mon, it's insanely naive, let's dont try to push narration that those things do not happen

When do they happen, and why did they happen? Edit: since I wasn't clear, I am looking for examples of when this has happened to you, or your friend, or anyone that you have heard of... Edit 2: also by "pretty much" does not happen, I don't mean never happens. But I think the rate at which it happens is probably a rounding error, and I think a lot of people would rather just say "oh well they could be lying" before e…

Unfortunely I'm unable to come with some kind of recipe/equation for that.

Re: My experience with sexual harassment in the Scala community

#400

Post by eloff »

Pfhreak wrote: post #393
eloff wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we can agree on that. I'm not arguing about what consent is, I'm arguing about whether you bear responsibility for what happens to you if you put yourself in a vulnerable position, give consent without being of sound mind, and then regret it later. I think 1) that's pretty dumb to put yourself in that situation, and 2) you do have partial responsibility for what happened.

Sure, but do you believe that's what's described here? I don't see anything that suggests that consent was ever given.

I'm pretty sure I wrote that I don't know what the facts are here and that I'm inclined to side with her.

I'm asking about this situation in general, not about her specific case.

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