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Why Lichess will always be free

lichess.org

391–400 of 477 posts

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#391

Thibault Duplessis is actually an ex co-worker of mine, and this guy is truly impressive. Not only he is a very talented developer, he really sticks to his beliefs and made what Lichess is today. He used to take up a job for a year or so, save money, and travel the world for a year or so until money runs out. Then he would come back to France and take up a new job. All working on Lichess during his free time. For a f…

What an inspiration! I’m doing more or less the same with c0d3.com

Been working on the learning community for about 5 years now.

I’ve saved up enough for a year, will be quitting In 2 weeks to go back to teaching and improving the experience and teach more students about good engineering practices.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#392

Thibault Duplessis is actually an ex co-worker of mine, and this guy is truly impressive. Not only he is a very talented developer, he really sticks to his beliefs and made what Lichess is today. He used to take up a job for a year or so, save money, and travel the world for a year or so until money runs out. Then he would come back to France and take up a new job. All working on Lichess during his free time. For a f…

A way to have more people like Thibault is to make it so the cost of living is extremely cheap, if not totally guaranteed. A society creates its people.

Yeah, a Portland or Berlin where one can retire young with low cost of living and do cool stuff...

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#393
post #38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe it’s because I spend some number of hours a week looking at trees, but it never ceases to amaze me how stupid the average technical person is around the word “forever”. If you truly want to be pedantic, the word "forever" does not appear in the post at all. Less pedantically, I believe most people have the ability to understand that nothing lasts forever. From reading the post, the emphasis was on "free" and…

What’s the difference between “always” and “forever”? Do you think that’s a valid sticking point for people? I’m willing to rephrase as I don’t see a distinction that matters to any of my points. > “Why Lichess will be free as long as it exists.” Same problem. It’s built entirely on wishful thinking. Do you agree with all the choices you made when you were twenty? Do you agree with all of the choices you made after t…

From https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/61436/always-vs-...

> In some contexts they mean the same, but differ syntactically [...] In other contexts there's a difference in that always usually means continuously, at all [relevant] times, whereas forever usually means for an infinite amount of time into the future.

See the link for examples that might further clarify it for you. Obviously stackexchange is not a definitive answer space, but you can verify the differences from the linked post by looking the words up in a detailed dictionary, like the OED.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#394
post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, $55k a year is not cheap! What world... Ok, it's late, I'll hold back the rest of my words. :) I think you were saying it's cheap relative to the impact it has. I agree. But "holy hell that's expensive" is an entirely accurate reaction for someone who wants to fund it out of pocket. (Gwern covers our TPU/ML infrastructure costs for around $350/mo, and I wince that I wasn't able to optimize it cheaper.)

55k is just the cost of the server. The total cost is 400k

Holy guacamole, I didn't scroll down far enough. Thank you for pointing this out.

"French taxes" is $53k, which is nearly equal to their server fees. Wow.

Props to them for however they manage to get $400k/yr for a free project with no business model, and no intended business model. (I'm serious; it's a wonderful thing for the world, and a tremendous example of what people can achieve without having a monetary focus.)

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#395
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you the absolute best of luck. If this notion/method of operating community platforms takes off, the world will be far better for it. Imagine if the average human's interaction with the internet were open free (both as in beer and as in idealistically) platforms that encouraged social collaboration, personal interaction, and community formation. Wikipedia, Lichess... maybe woogles. It could easily be an impetu…

> the powerful technocrats living in silicon valley, the primary users of HackerNews. That's a serious misperception. Only about 10% of HN users were anywhere near SV, last I checked, and the vast majority of those aren't "powerful technocrats". I frequently see comments like this setting up (or expressing) barriers between the commenter and the rest of the community, when the truth is that the community is mostly ju…

Hi dang, thank you for taking the time to point that out. I think you are touching on something that's important to understand and overcome. I realized that my wording was poor as I thought more about my comment and you are correct to call me out. I'll try to be as honest/open/guidelined in my response as possible to bare fruit from an aggressive comment.

While it might be true that the demographics of the site are 10% SV residents, I do sense a very existent divide here in the interests of the users of this site. And while my initial comment might not have perfectly followed the guidelines, I do often think it's important to push-back against the "money-above-all" culture that often steers this website, or at least the culture that underpins a lot of the discussions.

I think, as the site is founded by a VC firm, there is inherently a large subset of users that are money driven technocrats. And more substantially, I think the resulting culture is a barrier to the actual substance of discussions here and to the impact of discussions/technology/startups/VCs/etc in general. And I broadly disagree with the perspective on community, society, money, and finance that the founders of YCombinator espouse. Views that are also shared by a portion of the user-base here.

Let me label these two communities that I believe there is a barrier between: "FOSS-ers" and "startup-ers". I hope these labels are transparent enough that I don't even need to clearly define them. Thus, what I think that I'm trying to comment on, is that there is a real divide between these communities. Is there common ground? Absolutely. Am I willing to tolerate the "wealth-at-all costs" attitude that is pervasive here? Absolutely not. I think it's toxic and damaging to civil society and I think we're bearing that out at this exact moment in time. And I see HackerNews as an awkward, sometimes beautiful, ground-zero.

Now, to be expressly clear with my position: I'm not anti-capitalism. I wouldn't even call myself a socialist. After all "socialism", as the word is colloquially used in the Anglo world (aka European EU-style socialism), is really just capitalism where some of the taxes are expressly earmarked for broad reaching social programs. I believe in competition and I believe in providing rewards to the people who are willing to take risks and create things in the world. I think that's fantastic.

But I am suspicious of some users here. I think the actions of many VC firms, YC startups and their founders, and the resulting discussions on HN, border very often on anti-social. I don't believe Paul Graham's hypothesis that large sums of wealth aggregated via consumer capitalism is best used by VCs to create good in the world. It's typically used to acquire more wealth via blind consumer-oriented companies, with the occasional benevolent passion project. That wealth in the hands of a sufficiently/correctly motivated government, an institution created to serve the people, would create far more good and is a much better place for that money.

I quite plainly believe that much more good would be created in the world using technology if these people had stricter morals, less money, and less selfish goals. I also believe that their wealth is inherently oppressive, as it bequeaths power to be even more selfish... and motivates others to follow suit. Something I think should be discussed here on this website.

--------------

Now, I know that I'm riding the lines of the comment guidelines here. I know that this is pretty close to an ideological battle. But I hope that I'm closer to "curious thoughtful and substantive conversation" about ideologies on HN than I am to fulminating. I suppose I'll find out in your response.

Thanks for all your effort here dang.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#396

Thibault Duplessis is actually an ex co-worker of mine, and this guy is truly impressive. Not only he is a very talented developer, he really sticks to his beliefs and made what Lichess is today. He used to take up a job for a year or so, save money, and travel the world for a year or so until money runs out. Then he would come back to France and take up a new job. All working on Lichess during his free time. For a f…

Lichess is _impressive_ in itself. I was blown away when I found it was FOSS. Kudos to Thibault.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#397
post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are even some companies with no advertisement spending because their product is so essentially useful that people will seek it out themselves Really? I'd love to hear more about this.

I am not sure, what parent thought and I don't have examples without any spending to advertisement, but there is very "low profile", almost no ads categories. 1) Big business-to-business manufacturers. I haven't ever seen ads for compal or asml. I am sure they are presented in trade shows and contact directly to potential customers. 2) Small data recovery shops. I know few those, one don't advertise at all, one uses…

No-ad-spend companies are hard to come up with, some possibilities are everyday necessities with very few competitors like salt (but I think they advertise a little), or utility monopolies (I don't think my local water company or garbage collection company advertises, but I haven't checked. Maybe they advertise to the government offices that select the companies to use?). Pre-internet days, it would be easier to be sure some businesses don't advertise (neighborhood convenience stores or laundromats, for example, that get enough foot traffic to not bother advertising), but with the ease of throwing up a website nowadays (which should count as advertising), this can no longer be assumed.

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#398

I made a site heavily inspired by lichess (specifically AGPL, no ads ever, free forever), but for crossword board games (think Scrabble, Words with Friends, etc). You can see it here at https://woogles.io It has been growing steadily and we're about to hit 400K games played; it's the site of choice for the streaming community and we just finished hosting the World Blitz Championship this past week :) Thibault is sort…

On the mobile site, I couldn’t find any information on what the game is or how it works.

Maybe add more of a header section to explain the game or have a picture of what it looks like in a game?

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#399

In a simple 2x2x2 matrix of * product aimed at specific audience / general audience * product is "one big idea" / a lot of little ideas * product requires long term engagement / short term engagement Only "specific audience" / "one big idea" / "long term engagement" can expect to - indeed, must - thrive on patronage. The 7 other boxes are beholden to their users' fickleness.

Wikipedia would seem to be general audience / big idea / short-term but survives on patronage.

True! :)

I guess if your idea is "big" enough to attract an audience approaching the entire human civilization, you can survive short-term engagement :)-

Re: Why Lichess will always be free

#400
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish you the absolute best of luck. If this notion/method of operating community platforms takes off, the world will be far better for it. Imagine if the average human's interaction with the internet were open free (both as in beer and as in idealistically) platforms that encouraged social collaboration, personal interaction, and community formation. Wikipedia, Lichess... maybe woogles. It could easily be an impetu…

> the powerful technocrats living in silicon valley, the primary users of HackerNews. That's a serious misperception. Only about 10% of HN users were anywhere near SV, last I checked, and the vast majority of those aren't "powerful technocrats". I frequently see comments like this setting up (or expressing) barriers between the commenter and the rest of the community, when the truth is that the community is mostly ju…

Have there been any posts doing analysis of the demographics of this site? And if not, could a data scientist come in, visiting professor style, and do one? I think it would be fascinating!

(link just goes to guidelines site which does not discuss demographics)

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