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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#391
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the fact that the 5 C-suite execs have escape hatches from their bullet proof offices to SUVs below, and the remainder of the 3,000 engineers are in an open space just tells you what those people value.

Really? Escape hatches? Edit: Ok. Maybe https://news.yahoo.com/mark-zuckerberg-reportedly-escape-hat...

I was on the design team of MPW.... yes they have escape hatches.

and more.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#392

I don't have Facebook and I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging. However, seeing this response from Facebook has gotten me very excited for this update. There must be more to it then Apple's generic 'Most Advanced Update Ever' marketing. I'm still skeptical of Apple's commitment to privacy, but I'm certainly happy to get this update. Apple should thank Facebook for the free marketing.

For some reason I have a bad feeling about this update actually getting released. I'm worried that FB is going to convince some judge to tell Apple they can't do this, and delay it for months or years. Maybe (hopefully) this is an irrational worry, but you never know the extent to which people will go when billions of dollars are on the line.

I think what's more likely than any kind of legal injunction is that FB and Apple will come to a "mutual understanding". Maybe Facebook will license Apple Maps (for a princely sum) and make some symbolic compromise on data collection that lets Apple water down the permission dialogs.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#393
post #332
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, you literally are Apple’s product to their iOS developer ecosystem, in the sense that developers fork over 30% of their revenue to Apple for access to you.

No, that's not right. The app is the product, the customer is the buyer of the app, and the split of revenue is 70/30 (or 85/15 for small devs). Saying that developers are "buying" users makes no sense. Devs are not a customer of apple. If anything, devs are a supplier to apple. Since the net money flow is from Apple to Dev. As always, just follow the money.

On the other hand, devs wouldn't be able to sell to iPhone users if there was no iPhone, or no App Store, or the appleid.apple.com identity verification system, or iOS 14, or anything else that is paramount to devs even having those users as customers in the first place. In this scenario, the iPhone is the product and the App Store is a feature of the iPhone, and the fact that it moves money around (or doesn't, most of the time) is irrelevant.

Now, the legal view of Apple's ecosystem is being litigated right now. What I posted above might be how the court sees it, or what you posted might be how the court sees it. We won't get a definitive answer until either Epic or Apple go home with the key to processing payments on iOS and all of the other systems that are effectively an iPhone with a different form factor (eg PS5, xbox series).

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#394
post #31

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

Between this privacy fight and the form factor of the iPhone Mini, there's a 90% chance my next phone will be an iPhone after more than a decade on Android. I'm done with this ad-sponsored trash ecosystem.

There are ads all over the App Store FYI

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#395
post #342

Apple should be applauded for this. Their revenue does not depend on software to clandestinely steal and sell users data. One day, we will look back at history and see facebook similar as to how people view myspace now (junkyard of software). Good on Apple not selling devices with a facebook backdoor in them. I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access, but at least they are stand…

One of my coworkers shared an interesting thought with me the other day. Apple is positioning itself as The Privacy Company today, but they've benefited immensely from the attention economy over the last 15 years. They would not have sold as many millions of iPhones, iPods (heck, even Macbooks) in the last decade, if Instagram & Facebook weren't there to suck people in to their platform (clearly, the same is true for…

Instagram was created by 10 people, and it was already good enough at that stage to get hypergrowth.

The truth is that all the huge advertising revenue is just a plus for the investors, the apps would have been created anyways, and then network effects take care of the content.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know apple probably has deals with malicious governments regarding data access Would love to see some evidence of that. That's quite an accusation and it should be taken seriously.

I remember that years ago they had a page like "we will delete this page if we are forced to give out data under the so and so act of the USA because we can't tell you explicitly". Does anyone remember more details?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#397
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am certainly on the Apple side of this spat but Stratechery wrote a rather compelling pro-Facebook article about this: https://stratechery.com/2020/privacy-labels-and-lookalike-au... The gist of the argument being that, regardless of what you think about Facebook, hyper-targeted "lookalike audience" models to target ads against actually do level the playing field for small businesses who do not the resources to pro…

While that might be true, it does not change the fact that modern tracking practices are intrusive and anti-consumer. Frankly, I can't sympathize with any business, no matter how small, that is dependent on tracking to thrive.

It's an old "ends justify the means" argument. By stealing your kidneys we can give them to starving orphans.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#398
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wholly internalized that there was a real problem when I started taking my phone to other parts of the house, placing it in a drawer before returning and shutting the door to have an in person conversation with someone.

I've started using the mobile sites for companies like Facebook that I kind of need to use occasionally but really don't want their horrifying app on my phone. It's kind of fascinating how hard they (not just Facebook) push you to use their "so much better" app even when their HTML version seems just as good if not better. It's just so much better for them . If you try the app and it's not better then you know what i…

If you're on Android I recommend Frost: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.pitchedapps.frost/

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#399
post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps cannot use the microphone on iOS 14 without your awareness. There is a little dot that will show up at the top of the screen if an app has recently used microphone or camera. Hopefully this can assuage your paranoia.

The dot seems to not be interactive, i.e. I won't be able to find out which app it was, and what it did. But it's a start!

If you drag open the control center it tells you which app used it recently.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#400
> Some apps, like Facebook, allow for some data tracking to be manually disabled. But by default, it is turned on. That gives the company reams of personal data on who we are and what we are doing, which it then vacuums up, packages and sells.

Facebook would be giving away money if they ever actually sold your data. As everyone here knows, they use that data to target the ads that they sell.

Do journalists phrase it this way out of ignorance, or is it an intentional lie to make Facebook look even worse than it is?

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