Earlier quoted context omitted.
Wayland was the last straw for me. It made me switch to Macs after 20 years of almost exclusive Linux on the desktop and a few dev stints. It was cool when my time was less expensive. I check the state of the linux world about once a year still. And obviously keep using it on the servers. Best of luck to everyone using it for desktop. I totally get why you do it, but it's just not for me right now.
Have you considered using a tiling window manager? I've been using bspwm for years and it just uses X. I don't really miss anything about floating window managers, and since switching everything feels more stable and portable
The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
391–400 of 714 posts
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I knew what I was signing up for when I decided to switch from X to Wayland, so I'm personally okay with it. It's the same with doing anything that isn't mainstream, such as my decision to use Linux in a workplace where a lot of stuff is Windows-first, and sometimes Windows-only. The best thing the iPhone did to the world was to make web applications more popular, and as long as Safari lags on web standards it…
Re: black screen when using Teams from browser. Check you have environment variables set correctly: XDG_SESSION_TYPE=wayland and XDG_CURRENT_DESKTOP=sway. I set up them in my .zshrc before starting sway. This helped me to fix the black screen issue. Hope it helps you too!
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#393Sure X.org is abandonware but there are serious problems Wayland still hasn't solved that X has. 1) Wayland is really slow. I don't know if it's the compositing or what but it's unusable on lighter hardware that X ran fine on. 2) Widget toolkits handling window decoration is awful. Before the large number of toolkits just meant some controls were a little different but now basic behavior changes based on how programm…
If there’s a security problem and people are hacking around it, that’s an indication that the either those people have bad needs, or that the security model is flawed — but it’s not an indication that it’s wrong to attempt to secure that resource in the first place.
If a janitor needs the nuclear-missile launch codes to clean the missile silo, you’ve probably fucked something up — but that “something” isn’t the fact that the missile silo doors are code-locked. (Instead, it’s probably 1. the fact that you’re using the same credentials for physical missile access as you are for missile launch, and 2. the fact that your regular janitor is expected to clean the missile silo.)
In this case, the security model of Wayland is the same kind that Windows and Android already have: preventing “low-integrity” apps from screen-scraping “high-integrity” apps. In other words, preventing a random webpage running in Chrome from stealing your credit card details sitting visibly in a sibling text-editor window.
(Or, of course, preventing you from Twitch-streaming your playback of DRMed Netflix video. That’s a use-case that “needs supporting” too, given that the alternative is that type of video not playing back on the platform at all.)
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most of the pragmatic solutions were built by contributing to existing things, not starting over. Think risc v cisc. It isn't that there are not points to be gained from the alternatives. It is that leaving the past behind is not necessarily the best way to get progress. And even when enough time passes that the alternative gains ground, it often looks more like what it was replacing than less.
You clearly have not watched video by X.Org developer, have not you? I expect you are better informed, worked a lot with X.Org codebase and can show some links on your commits. Or if you truly believe there is nothing wrong with X.Org you would become maintainer. > My (often incorrect) views and opinions are my own and not those of anyone I currently or have ever worked for. Please help me make them more informed (an…
Sadly, for the most part I have been discouraged from Linux desktop usage in recent years. Shame, as I have been on Linux for a couple of decades now. That said, I confess this is opening my interest. Would love to get myself and my children contributing, and I will start looking for ways to make that possible.
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
I only really care about performance and Wayland hasn’t been very convincing [0] with no discernible improvement over X11. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-Xo...
GNOME is not a good representative of Wayland. Wayland is just a protocol - it's up to the compositors to have good performance to distinguish it from Xorg, and GNOME does not do well in this regard. Other compositors, particularly wlroots, enjoy excellent performance. Wayland also opens the door to many performance improvements which are not possible on Xorg, and which take advantage of newer GPU features, especiall…
Can you recommend me a good representative of Wayland I could try?
I've been running KDE Neon for the past few years, but as you noted elsewhere it seems KDE on Wayland needs more work still.
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#396I don't quite follow? modesetting was supposed to replace xf86-video-intel, so it shouldn't be surprising if the latter isn't getting updated.
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#397So can we revive any of these also abandoned alternatives? * Tiny X (Still Xorg just barebones and faster) - https://github.com/tinycorelinux/tinyx * Xynth - https://github.com/alperakcan/xynth * Nano-X / MicroWindows - http://microwindows.org/ (Seems still active? Just needs some modern GUI ports.) * DirectFB (Needs modern driver support) - https://web.archive.org/web/20120118003245/http://www.direct... * SVGALib (N…
Probably not, because:
> Design choices [...] no gl
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#398This talk "The Real Story Behind Wayland and X" by Daniel Stone (a longtime X developer) may debunk some misconceptions in this thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#399X.org works fine, Wayland seems to be another RedHat thing. I must admit I haven't tried it, but given NetworkManager, systemd and other pearls from RedHat I'm not optimistic.
What's your problem with NetworkManager? It's generally good, and certainly much better than what came before.
Re: The X.Org Server Is Abandonware?
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's not really how Wayland extensions work. If I can reword your question as "are these protocols legitimate and standardized" the answer is "yes".
Are they optional¹ and are there alternatives to them? If the answer is yes, then there is a problem. 1 - I imagine "optional" can be the wrong word, maybe the correct is "universally adopted".
This isn’t particularly different to say, an toolkit not supporting a particular form of input, such as GLEW not supporting tablet devices or certain GPU’s having more extension methods — which you can see if you look at Khronos specification. Or an even more drastic example, is an application having both a terminal display and a X11 display like Emacs.