151–160 of 714 posts
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OS: OpenBSD Phone: Nokia8110 Watch: Vostok or Raketa
That's not correct - OpenBSD is being actively maintained. Although they're using a lot of old, stable and proven software, they're also doing security and bug fixes and even creating new functionality.
I would not recommend a OS that is not maintained for day to day work.
https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de...
Sure X.org is abandonware but there are serious problems Wayland still hasn't solved that X has. 1) Wayland is really slow. I don't know if it's the compositing or what but it's unusable on lighter hardware that X ran fine on. 2) Widget toolkits handling window decoration is awful. Before the large number of toolkits just meant some controls were a little different but now basic behavior changes based on how programm…
I think you don't mean that the Wayland protocol forces slowness but that the compositor you used was slow. The one I use is fast.
> And if you don't like the window decorations (say, they take up too much screen space) your choices are suck it up, or if you're lucky and willing to spend a bunch of time reconfigure every different toolkit your apps use.
No, there are protocols to negotiate whether an app has server side decoration or not and the compositor has the last say.
> basic stuff that worked fine on X11 doesn't work on wayland in the name of "security"
On only the core Wayland protocols you're absolutely correct, you can't even implement desktop shells with those. This means there must be extensions and there are 3 different classes: KDE, GNOME, wlroots, with tools for and incompatibility between each. The wlroots extensions are designed to be accepted into the standard and for wider Wayland acceptance they probably should be.
Screen sharing is still a particular issue that we are starting to see solved with the advent of Pipewire.
Wayland desktops are definitely usable. I've been happy with a wlroots based one (Wayfire) for a few months and KDE before that (from what I see GNOME has been perfect for a while).
One of the last standing real issues I'm facing is kerfuffle with Nvidia drivers, especially the ones paired with Intel GPUs, but I think (surprisingly) Nvidia are actually working on fixing that.
Sure X.org is abandonware but there are serious problems Wayland still hasn't solved that X has. 1) Wayland is really slow. I don't know if it's the compositing or what but it's unusable on lighter hardware that X ran fine on. 2) Widget toolkits handling window decoration is awful. Before the large number of toolkits just meant some controls were a little different but now basic behavior changes based on how programm…
Wayland is really slow. I don't know if it's the compositing or what but it's unusable on lighter hardware that X ran fine on. This is crazy when you think about it. I remember running an X server, Hummingbird I think it was called, on 386 and 486 machines connecting to Suns and it was fine , this was a perfectly acceptable way to work. Couple of xterms, an Emacs, xbiff for email, maybe some xeyes just for fun. Devel…
Let's be real here - if you're needing something to "just work" you're going to install X. Sorry Wayland, you're just not there yet.
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What could be the reason behind this? Asking as a noob.
When a window bar needs a gradient, you are starting to stress the graphics engine... And that is just a simple bitmap (or not)...
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It took about a decade for NetworkManager to gain CLI, all the time it tried to eat more and more control over network stack. It was also opinionated in the worst possible way, like responding to requests to support ad-hoc wifi mode (back when NM was only about WiFi) with "your request is dumb, you're dumb, and we will never do that". It got usable within last few years as somewhat general thing (after having already…
Not saying I don't believe you, but do you have a citation for when they responded to requests in that way?
At the time, NetworkManager was gaining steam as "the" solution to wifi woes, and well, I tasted dirt ;)
I am not necessarily against Wayland or new things in general. But it bothers me when no clear upgrade path is defined ("drop your stuff" is not acceptable) and a half-hassed incomplete solution is proposed instead, and backwards compatibility is pretty much disregarded. For what concerns my personal computing, I'll stay on Xorg until XFCE supports Wayland. Then I'll update.
Wayland was the last straw for me. It made me switch to Macs after 20 years of almost exclusive Linux on the desktop and a few dev stints. It was cool when my time was less expensive. I check the state of the linux world about once a year still. And obviously keep using it on the servers. Best of luck to everyone using it for desktop. I totally get why you do it, but it's just not for me right now.
X11 problems explained by Daniel Stone [1]. As I understand there are two parallel architectures, one uses X11 server primitives (xfontsel), another renders on client (fontconfig fc-list etc). It is very confusing.
Someone explain why the push to wayland when there is no discernable performance increase [0] and lots of broken applications. [0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-Xo...
Most of X.Org is horrible and the entire system is unmaintainable. It is hard to even get maintenance releases for it released, as the article alludes to. Development hasn't stalled because people think X is good. Development has stalled because the fundamental design is so misaligned from the modern graphics stack that improvements are not worth attempting.
I am not necessarily against Wayland or new things in general. But it bothers me when no clear upgrade path is defined ("drop your stuff" is not acceptable) and a half-hassed incomplete solution is proposed instead, and backwards compatibility is pretty much disregarded. For what concerns my personal computing, I'll stay on Xorg until XFCE supports Wayland. Then I'll update.
I keep trying to use Wayland, but it never fully works. Everyone keeps saying how well the highdpi stuff works, but then it really only works for a subset of things. For the rest it's actually worse than Xorg. Multiscreen is Xorg is kinda mushy so I thought maybe Wayland fixes it, but no it doesn't. Wayland is now 12 years old and everything is still half-baked. It quotes an intel developer saying they don't want to…
Oh, look, more non-experts spreading misinformation about Wayland on HN. Must be Sunday. https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de...
[0] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GNOME-Xo...