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USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

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Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#391

Post by TOGoS »

netcan wrote: post #91

Douglas Adams on Dongly Things: http://douglasadams.com/dna/980707-03-a.html Spolsky on Martian headsets: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2008/03/17/martian-headsets/ It turns out that making power/data cables work without irritating the hell out humanity as a whole is a task that humans are uniquely unsuited to solving. We'll have to wait for AI or aliens to fix this. Meanwhile, stop expecting the next standard to wo…

Douglas Adams wants a standard 12V connector? Those 2.1mm barrel plugs are basically that. Most any 12V LED strip you buy from amazon will come with jacks already attached and maybe include a power supply. Half the small electronic devices I buy (USB hubs, Ethernet switches, external hard drives) use it, though sometimes they want 9V instead of 12.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#392

Post by blinky1456 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #308
dheera wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were legal protections around this. Using a standard plug means it should accept the standard for that plug.

I wish the same about people who sell adapters for plugging 15A electrical devices into 25A electrical outlets. Sadly, the legal burden is placed exclusively on the buyer (via electrical code).

Why does it matter if you plug 15amp device into a 25amp oulet? Surely It will only use 15amps unless it short circuits?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#393

Post by bleepblorp »

dheera wrote: post #270
floatingatoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

I wish there were legal protections around this. Using a standard plug means it should accept the standard for that plug.

Yes.

USB-PD is in a twilight zone where it can deliver enough power to cause safety risks but, due to its low voltage, is not subject to the level of regulatory scrutiny that other electrical products receive.

To date, the USB-IF's approach to safety and interoperability does not adequately protect consumers. USB-PD devices should not be incompatible to the point of damage but USB-IF has been unable to ensure this by keeping non-compliant products off the market.

USB-PD needs to be pulled under the IEC, NRTL (US) and CE (EU) regulatory systems and compliance overseen by entities with the legal authority to deter legitimate manufacturers/importers from selling non-compliant products.

"You can plug it in, but it might catch fire" just isn't good enough for a power delivery system that can provide 100W.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#394

Post by gfxgirl »

jeremymcanally wrote: post #4

Really? I find it to be a game changer for me. The fact that my laptop, Switch, iPad, and several other devices can all share a charge has made my life much easier. I can just sprinkle a few of them throughout the house and never be without power. Before it was always a hunt to find a cable, or I had to be in [x] room to charge [y] device because that's where the charger lived. Plus, I can charge my MacBook on either…

That's how I wish it was for me but it's not. So far the largest charger I've been able to find only has 2 USB-C plugs. So, switch + pixel + pocket wifi + macbook air

Then I have lots different computers. My Macbook Air has USB-C, my MacBook Pro has USB-A, My brand new desktop PC has USB-A, my Razer laptop has both USB-A and USB-C, my Playstation has USB-A. I have USB-A SD-Card readers and USB-A hubs.

Then, when If first got the Macbook Air I ended up going through 3 different USB-C hubs until I finally figured out how to buy one that actually supported 4k-60hz (the first 2 only supported 4k-30hz). Then later, I tried to use the Razer on a USB-C monitor. It worked but at some point the keyboard and mouse were flaky. Turned out apparently I needed a Thunderbolt HUB, not a USB-C hub (plugs are the same) so now I've gone through 4 hubs.

you can read about the 4 or 5 kinds of possible USB-C hubs you might end up with if you're not careful. I have no idea how a non-techie figures this out.

https://www.bigmessowires.com/2019/05/19/explaining-4k-60hz-...

And then, I still have 3 iPhones that all use lighting (USB-A to lighting) and a few other devices at are USB-Micro (Kindle for example)

And several external hard-drives that are all that USB-3 wide plug to USB-A

I'm sure by the time USB-D arrives USB-C will be great and all my cables will be USB-C on both ends and all my devices will only have USB-C sockets but right now it's a mess

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#395

Post by toast0 »

jessaustin wrote: post #380
floatingatoll wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish the same about people who sell adapters for plugging 15A electrical devices into 25A electrical outlets. Sadly, the legal burden is placed exclusively on the buyer (via electrical code).

I don't see how such a product would be useful for anyone. At least in USA, anywhere a 25A circuit is available, a 15A circuit is also available. The converse (using a 25A device on a 15A circuit) would be useful, but also wouldn't be dangerous in any way.

Looking at us (NEMA) plugs, there's plugs for 15A, 20A, 30A, and 50A. I'm going to assume everyone means 30A instead of 25A.

Generally, where there's a 30A circuit, a 15A circuit is also available, but there are exceptions. You may have wired a RV hookup with only a 30A receptacle, but you want to run some lights, or tools or ? with a 15A plug from that on a temporary basis. The circuit is (presumably) good for 30A, so adapting to a lower amp receptacle is reasonable --- it won't hurt anything to draw fewer amps through the circuit.

Adapting from a 15A socket to a 30A socket can be dangerous; the 15A or 20A[1] breaker or fuse on the circuit won't immediately open with a 30A draw, and the wiring will heat up during the time it takes for the circuit protection to open; possibly long enough to cause a fire. Of course, just because a load has a 30A plug doesn't mean it draws 30A all the time, there are conditions where using such an adapter is safe, but it requires knowledge of the load.

[1] US NEC code allows for a 20A breaker on circuits served by 15A receptacle, as long as there is more than one receptacle

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#396

Post by bluGill »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #301
bluGill wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this is really the case Nintendo is vulnerable to a class action lawsuit. Any lawyers want to take the case?

You purchase the switch with a provided charger. If that charger caused issues, then there's potentially a suit. It's not obvious that you'd say the same thing if they used a proprietary port like what the 3DS uses.

No, I purchase a device with a Universal charger port and a universal charger. If the device doesn't work with any other universal charger that is their problem. Likewise if I use their charger on something else and it breaks my other device that is their problem.

The purpose of universal is everything works with everything. whoever breaks that is at fault and should pay the price. If Nintendo has used some other port I wouldn't have the expectation, but they used a universal port so they need to be compatible.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#397

Post by Tijdreiziger »

Chris2048 wrote: post #263
rolobio wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my research a few years ago, this is caused by the Switch asking the charger for 20V, but it actually expects 15V. The Nintendo charger obeys this hidden rule, but any other charger will happily provide 20V. I think the difference between a 20V and 15V charge isn't significant enough to blow the Switch up the first time you use it, but, over time it will blow up.

Is this a purposefully-engineered flaw to reduce confidence in 3rd party chargers?

If that would've been the goal, why would they have made the device with a USB-C port in the first place (rather than a proprietary port)?

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#398

Post by novok »

JAlexoid wrote: post #382
_v7gu wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dock is a special case and requires some specific voltage/amperage support. But the switch itself abides by EU regulations.

65W Apple charger.... My Lenovo 65W USB-C charger had no issues at all.

A USB-C PD brink specifies which voltage and amp combos it supports charging, and the one that the dock & switch ask for as their 'optimal' power profiles most apple USB-C bricks do not deliver, despite having the wattage capability for them.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#399

Post by aj7 »

“How any normal person is supposed to grasp this soup of standards, built atop a single port that looks the same, is anyone’s guess.”

How is any normal person gonna buy 3/8” shrink wrap tubing, a heat gun, and strain relief a batch of Lightning cables every 6 months? So they don’t last 3 months.

I know it’s irrelevant.

Re: USB-C was supposed to simplify our lives, but instead it’s a total mess

#400

Post by hobofan »

floatingatoll wrote: post #235
mikepurvis wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't actually own a Switch, but my partner and I both charge our laptops (mine a Dell XPS, hers a MacBook) from the same after-market USB-C charging bricks. I don't love that it's like this, but basically the product page just lists every known-to-work device, including Nintendo Switch: https://www.amazon.ca/Charger-Adapter-Replacement-Thinkpad-M... Now, I'm a cheapskate, so most of my electronics are older device…

Word of warning, for those reading this far: The Switch and Switch Dock are not USB-C devices. That you’re able to plug in a USB-C charger or USB-C device and see it supposedly work just means that you haven’t yet encountered the scenario(s) that can electronically damage the Switch. Nintendo’s warranty does not cover this damage when it occurs, requiring a full-cost repair or replacement as you connected unlicensed…

How are there multiple people here in the thread that say that the port on the Switch is not a USB-C port, when it says so in the official specs _right on their website_? https://www.nintendo.com/switch/tech-specs
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