Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

abcnews.go.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

391–400 of 435 posts

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#391

Post by tribby »

non-entity wrote: post #364
timmytokyo wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing compels them. It is who they are. And they are not alone in being like this. The better question is, why are so many people in positions of authority like this?

I believe the positions naturally draws people who are bullies. Not that all of them are, but the power over, and respect from the general population is probably very attractive to people who get a kick out of being asshole. Also, while I can't confirm the prevalence, there's a ton of anecdotes you here about shady hiring practices. There's the now popular story about a department refusing to hire people who had too…

> Also, while I can't confirm the prevalence, there's a ton of anecdotes you here about shady hiring practices. There's the now popular story about a department refusing to hire people who had too high an IQ

this is not just anecdotal, and has even been tested in court[0].

0. https://abcnews.go.com/US/court-oks-barring-high-iqs-cops/st...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#392

Post by JohnBooty »

burfog wrote: post #379
JohnBooty wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's really sobering is that, in my personal experiences as a middle-class American white man in his 40s, police have always been really good at de-escalating things. I haven't always agreed with them, but they have always cooled things down nicely without resorting to violence or even arrests. Training varies widely by locale, but I believe de-escalation is indeed a nearly universal part of their training. It must…

All of that is seen through the filter of the media. They have a story that they want to sell. They need to grab eyeballs. They are also political, and so they want to push what helps advance their own political goals, even if it tears the country apart. Specifically, every one of these is subject to selection bias: "nearly always white" "unnecessarily violent tactics" "nearly always Black" You won't see a news repor…

Of course "the media" focuses on incidents where cops abuse their power.

"The media" also exalts policemen and soldiers as heroes, with countless reminders to thank our "heroes" and millions of hours of Hollywood entertainment devoted to showcasing heroic soldiers and cops. Much of the media denounces the protests as well.

    A different sort of bias comes into play with 
    word choice, using "victims" to refer to people 
    who typically are violent criminals being 
    apprehended. The word ought to be "perpetrators",
    "suspects", or simply "criminals".
Surely you see the irony in using an equally loaded set of terms yourself?

In all of the incidents that sparked outcry, police were shown on video using vastly asymmetrical force against victims who were nonviolent or who had already been subdued. One, Breona Taylor, was in bed when police knocked down the wrong door when serving a no-knock warrant. Elijah, the teen injected with ketamine, was nonviolent and had no history of violence or crime.

There are a lot of incidents of police violence in which the suspect is behaving violently and, in these cases, I have not seen public outcry.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#393

Post by TeaDrunk »

vorpalhex wrote: post #208
TeaDrunk wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says that on the books that you’re allowed to defend against excessive force, but they’ll still charge you for assault for bleeding on their uniform. (And then only retract this when the media outcry becomes too difficult to ignore.)

Being charged is not the same as being found guilty. Cops are not lawyers or judges.

Cops are not lawyers or judges, but cops can make your life hell totally legally. There are people who are forced to sign away their right to protest in order to be let out of jail for a charge that is totally dropped.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#394

Post by alchemism »

GordonS wrote: post #276
GordonS wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People taking ketamine in clubs usually use much less than k-hole or anaesthetic doses, because the effects are more conducive to partying. They generally take small bumps over the course of a night. I really doubt the club kids to saw had taken anything like the equivelant of 300mg or 500mg taken IM (2x the bioavailability of intranasal), or even intranasally. If you are standing, 50-75mg taken intranasally can caus…

It's probably obvious, but the doses I mention are regarding pharmaceutical ketamine, straight from the vial, rather than for street ketamine.

Let’s say these particular kids had access to the good stuff. Cooked straight from the vial, albeit from Mexico or some further place. Done by the plateful and not in bumps.

I should also add that the ones whom I had to talk down were probably also on heaven-knows what other substances at the time.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#395

Post by malcolmgreaves »

dang wrote: post #362
antioink wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, and I think there are lot of deniers of how the racist history of the US influences its racist present. The mindset that permits people to shrug off the killing of Elijah McClain, and assume he must have done something to deserve it, is the same that celebrated public lynchings.

Could you please not post in the flamewar style to HN? Especially not the ideological flamewar style? We're trying for something other than scorched earth here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site to heart, we'd be grateful.

They're being completely civil. This does not at all sound like an "ideological flame war."

Racism in society isn't an ideologocal point. It's reality. They're pointing out facts that are uncomfortable.

If the "spirit" of HN is truly about intellectual curiosity around things that relate to tech and entrepreneurship, then HN needs to embrace the fact that society ultimately rules over all -- most certainly tech and business.

I fear that your comment here and re-direction to "the rules" is a censorship attempt because this is an uncomfortable thing go think about. Is HN a place where discussion about social problems that infect all of tech, business, and entrepreneurship not allowed? Is talking about racism "ideological"?

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#396

Post by garaetjjte »

fuzxi wrote: post #383
quickthrowman wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’ll have to get a job at a county fair running the weight guessing attraction to get enough data. There’s no other way to do it, it’s how we all figured out how to estimate the weight of a human. I’ll call my friend Chucky, he’ll get you a gig in a traveling carnival for the summer.

Or simply any job that requires checking IDs. Bouncer, bartender, cashier in a store that sells alcohol/cigarettes, etc.

Huh, I have never seen weight specified on any ID.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#397

Post by mortehu »

tmp538394722 wrote: post #165
mortehu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are resisting arrest, you may still be presumed innocent of the original crime. However you're almost certainly guilty of resisting lawful arrest, which is usually a misdemeanor. There's no exemption that allows innocent people to resist lawful arrest. This is not to say that injection sounds like a great solution for everyday arrests.

Elijah McClain did not resist arrest. > I can’t breathe. I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain. That’s my house. I was just going home. I’m an introvert. I’m just different. That’s all. I’m so sorry. I have no gun. I don’t do that stuff. I don’t do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don’t even kill flies! I don’t eat meat! But I don’t judge people, I don’t judge people who do eat meat. Forgive me.…

The source you're citing doesn't even address the assertion you're making, so that's a bit misleading to post. Looking for a source for your claim I found this, which adds some detail: https://youtu.be/lfzJzAm-OV0?t=63

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#398

Post by mortehu »

ashtonkem wrote: post #268
tehwebguy wrote: post #158

Police should never be permitted to direct medical professionals to do anything to a person in their custody unless it is to save their life. Medical professionals should be hyper-trained on how to tell police “hell no” and to report their requests to an independent agency for investigation. There are other types of scenarios where out of control cops bully doctors and nurses into doing illegal things, two that I hav…

The cops involved went back to where they killed Elijah McCain and posed for a group photo, reportedly re-enacting his death. This is the behavior I’d expect from a serial killer. Edit: they then distributed or showed this photo to the rest of the precinct. We know because a whistleblower notified the media. To my eye, this means that they expected the rest of the precinct to approve of this behavior, which is extrem…

Minor correction: it was not the same police officers, although from the same police department.

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#399

Post by drewbug01 »

mortehu wrote: post #103
axaxs wrote: post #3

Why are we injecting people during arrests, which by definition are not yet guilty people? Even if nobody had died, this is absurd.

If you are resisting arrest, you may still be presumed innocent of the original crime. However you're almost certainly guilty of resisting lawful arrest, which is usually a misdemeanor. There's no exemption that allows innocent people to resist lawful arrest. This is not to say that injection sounds like a great solution for everyday arrests.

> If you are resisting arrest

Alas, when someone is or is not "resisting arrest" is not something that is particularly well-defined. It's usually "when the officer says you are resisting," regardless of the actual facts at hand.

My point, basically, is that if a cop grabs you unexpectedly, and you push them away (a reasonable, normal reaction): the next thing you hear is "stop resisting!"

The crime of "resisting arrest" needs to go away.

Interesting reading: https://bostonreview.net/race-law-justice/lisa-cacho-jodi-me...

Re: Ketamine that's injected during arrests draws new scrutiny

#400

Post by jessaustin »

jcims wrote: post #215
jessaustin wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're also making assumptions here. Lots of out-of-shape programmers have been in fights. Lots of out-of-shape programmers weigh more than twice what this victim weighed, and still move well. Also, get out of here with that "women" bullshit: that proves all your implied expertise comes from watching TV. The attitude here is typical of bootlickers, however. Never mind that there were a dozen cops present. Never mind…

You were so excited to haul out 'bootlicker' that you didn't really even try to think about what I was replying to. Maybe next time.

It's a perfectly cromulent word. If you'd like to try writing that comment again, this time with less psychological projection and no distracting nonsense about deadly pre-teen ninja girls, we'll all read it again and revise our opinions about the licking of boots. "Maybe next time" it won't be downvoted to oblivion...
Post reply on HN