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Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
391–400 of 1001 posts
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#392So what exactly is the genesis of this income that's to be doled out? Is it still wealth redistribution underneath where productive individuals make it possible for others to live off whatever largesse they create and without those individuals no one has anything to be circulated? Where does it all begin precisely? Is UBI predicated on anything exactly? Can it be employed in Mexico or Cuba or Libya the same effect as…
UBI can partially replace the piecemeal social funding we already provide but with much less bureaucracy.
The assumption is that most will still work. I'm fairly convinced that would be the case. Society seems to revolve around a 40 hour week when we could all certainly put in less time and survive.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#393A UBI paid for with a carbon tax would both save us from the worst consequences of global warming and stimulate the economy. It's hard to find a rational excuse for not doing it. Planet Money did a great episode on this idea over 7 years ago: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2013/07/12/201502003/epis... They did a followup 5 years later: https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2018/07/18/630267782/epis... It seems like…
Henry George had it right: Use land value tax to fund UBI. Abracadabra, all the birds get killed with one stone: Real estate prices calm down, income inequality calms down, environmental costs are valued into use, and poverty is eliminated.
Or, just abolish any ownership of property except demonstrated by active personal (or organizational) use. We could have been planning cities decades ago and avoided the current real estate hellscape.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#394I haven't seen this discussed as much, but I am worried about population rises along with a UBI.
Especially amongst poorer communities where extra children are viewed as financial stability. Already with free schooling and meals, there is a mindset that you can raise kids and let the state take care of them to some degree.
But I guess UBI is far more likely to be implemented in places which don't have population problems to begin with.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#395In the future, robots theoretically can do everything, and yes ubi would be needed.
What level are we at now? I don't think a ubi should be very much, maybe a dollar a day. Maybe 2. Considering we have all the other social programs for needy people. 5 bucks a day, who knows. The problem is people wanting to start it at some real high number.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#396Why give free money to everyone? Clearly a rich person doesn’t need a monthly check from government... Milton Friedman long ago proposed a negative income tax to replace means-tested welfare programs. Essentially, people below a certain income threshold would receive money which scales to a maximum the closer their income approaches zero. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax I do think people radically…
> Why give free money to everyone? Clearly a rich person doesn’t need a monthly check from government... The answer is that it's much simpler to send everyone a check. The rich person will pay more in taxes than the amount of their check, so it doesn't matter. Indeed, the arguments that we should do otherwise are to the benefit of the rich, because the proposed cutoff invariably comes somewhere in the middle income r…
>The answer is that it's much simpler to send everyone a check.
That's an answer, not the answer. A similar question is: “how much should UBI pay per month?”, and a similar answer is that “it's much simpler to just pay gazillion dollars than spend time figuring it out”. After all, the only difference is the cost.
IMO there's a proven balance in having a system (“bureaucracy”) to find out who need financial assistance, and simply assisting those. But then again, I fundamentally disagree with UBI because I have a differing view on society and the rights and responsibilities of its members, along the lines of “society takes care of you if needed for the price of you helping make this possible if you are able”.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#397UBI might work overall, the humanity has accumulated too much wealth, stuff and automation powers. Supply is overweighting demand historically for the first time. Why not redistribute wealth evenly, so that economic well-being becomes a new norm. Because, guess what happens, when one doesn't have to work to survive anymore? Happier, healthier and more creative people overall.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem I see with that is that if a huge number of people take that route and happily (let's assume) live their lives without working, they lose access to the ability to participate in a meaningful way in the economy by producing something of value; if they're not producing value, no one is going to value them, and they'll eventually be locked out of the new, smaller elite group that controls the means of produc…
This gets at a problem I always wonder about with UBI (as someone who genuinely sees the value in a successful implementation of it). What happens in 20-30 years once the system has been entrenched. Will the children of those that choose not to work for additional income have decreased social capital an struggle to enter the workplace if they choose? How do you prevent those that choose to work from using the increas…
More importantly, how do you keep the workers from leaving? Because you're existence depends on living off of the work of others against their will.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#399Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem I see with that is that if a huge number of people take that route and happily (let's assume) live their lives without working, they lose access to the ability to participate in a meaningful way in the economy by producing something of value; if they're not producing value, no one is going to value them, and they'll eventually be locked out of the new, smaller elite group that controls the means of produc…
This gets at a problem I always wonder about with UBI (as someone who genuinely sees the value in a successful implementation of it). What happens in 20-30 years once the system has been entrenched. Will the children of those that choose not to work for additional income have decreased social capital an struggle to enter the workplace if they choose? How do you prevent those that choose to work from using the increas…
This is actually a really, really good question. It could create entire new future populations of disadvantaged and disenfranchised people with the same types of afflictions as the current groups. True equal access and opportunity would mitigate that of course, but good luck there.
Re: Universal Basic Income is Capitalism 2.0
#400There are a lot of people here dissenting on the idea of UBI on the premise that they find meaning in work, and to take the incentive to work away will lead others (themselves included) not to have meaning in life. I’ve taken a year off of work to start a business that failed and spent the past few months hanging out with my kids. At first, my stress levels were high because daycares were shut down and I was panickin…
The problem I see with that is that if a huge number of people take that route and happily (let's assume) live their lives without working, they lose access to the ability to participate in a meaningful way in the economy by producing something of value; if they're not producing value, no one is going to value them, and they'll eventually be locked out of the new, smaller elite group that controls the means of produc…
You should read the Beggars trilogy by Nancy Kress. It's about a world that gradually devolves into just that.