A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression • Hacker News Board

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#391

Post by argonaut » Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:13 AM UTC

marcell wrote: post #90

argonaut wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this page answer all those questions? https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/how-cdc-estimates.htm

No! I dug through that page and the cited papers, and it absolutely does not have any of the answers to those questions. If you find the answers on that page, I'd love to read them. For example, they say: > The numbers of influenza illnesses were estimated from hospitalizations based on how many illnesses there are for every hospitalization, which was measured previously (5). Ok... "estimated from hospitalizations"?…

I looked at the linked study. It's not very complicated. In fact one could argue their method was too simple.

They estimated the number of illnesses by dividing the number of hospitalizations by a series of probabilities (the probabilities constitute a funnel from someone getting an infection to someone being hospitalized - for example the probability you actually seek hospital attention, the probability your test accurately detects influenza, etc). The probabilities were uniformly sampled from a range of plausible values (derived from their survey data). They did this process 10k times to arrive at an distribution over the number of illnesses (this is a Monte Carlo simulation).

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#392

Post by Pfhreak » Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:30 AM UTC

viklove wrote: post #174

Pfhreak wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dangerously wrong. I went way too long before trying an antidepressant because I was worried I'd lose who I was, that I'd face social stigma, and that I was somehow cheating. Turns out they've made me more expressive, energetic, and connected to others in my life. The biggest effect is an increased ability to break out of mental ruts much more easily.

> Turns out they've made me more expressive, energetic, and connected to others in my life. Sounds like you did lose who you were, medications change your personality and that's not something I want for myself. More power to you for undergoing that change, though.

What? Depression changed who I was. Anxiety changed who I was. I didn't lose who I was as a result of medication, I regained what I had lost.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#393

Post by JacksonGariety » Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:38 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #350

JacksonGariety wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "and you can't change society, so you're stuck like this" I think OP meant that psychologists/psychiatrists don't recognize the social nature of mental illness at all. Just because you can't change society doesn't mean you should tell patients that they can lift themselves out of depression through sheer willpower, healthy eating habits, and exercise. Those things can help but if you don't know how you're going to…

Being anxious about a freight train heading straight towards you is not "anxiety" any more than grieving for the loss of a loved one is "depression." Medical doctors have absolutely nothing to do with the natural and accurate negative feelings associated with not being able to make rent.

But in most cases depression is a natural response to the difficulties of life. It's like when your immune system triggers an inflammatory response to infection. It's painful but natural; and the cause is external. Willpower can't cure depression any more than it can reduce inflammation. But in the case of mental illness, the external agent is socioeconomic hardship, family dysfunction, loss of a loved one, etc.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#394

Post by JSavageOne » Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:44 AM UTC

JPKab wrote: post #390

JSavageOne wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole reason the U.S. had to go into lockdown was because of the failure at the federal level to contain this crisis.

You say that as if it COULD have been contained. What is unique about the USA compared to every other country that locked down? Whose fault was it that Italy, UK, Spain, Belgium, Germany had to lock down? This election year absurdity has warped the reality of this virus. The virus is insanely transmissible with a long incubation period and high percentage of asymptomatic carriers. It couldn't have been contained in a…

I'm not condoning the lockdown and agree that the danger of coronavirus has been vastly overstated, my point is that the U.S. government was not prepared. There were not enough tests, masks, and ventilators, and so NYC had to go into lockdown. Anecdotally my friends in NYC who suffered from all the symptoms of coronavirus were not able to obtain tests.

Meanwhile South Korea never had to resort to any lockdown. Both the U.S. and South Korea reported their first case on the same day (Jan. 20th), and Korea had tests available in a week while the U.S. took 5 weeks.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#395

Post by JSavageOne » Thu, May 28, 2020, 5:46 AM UTC

fred_is_fred wrote: post #189

JSavageOne wrote: post #131

As an American it's not surprising at all. Six figures of student loan debt, job insecurity, healthcare insecurity, rampant poverty / homelessness, the most despicable president to disgrace the white house (who didn't even win the popular vote), stay-at-home orders because the U.S. couldn't manage the crisis, lack of community (doesn't help that 99% of the country is sprawl), rampant obesity, and general lack of hope…

I would take sprawl over being trapped in an apartment for 2 months.

True but it's not either/or. In Korea everyone lives in apartments, and they never had a lockdown. Live has practically been carrying on as usual throughout the whole pandemic, minus the closing of schools, libraries (checkout only), and churches for a brief period of time.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#396

Post by pstuart » Thu, May 28, 2020, 6:07 AM UTC

penagwin wrote: post #381

pstuart wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always welcome to new input, but the two cases I cited have compelling facts behind them. Being that I'm not thrilled to carry these notions, I'd be more than happy to have my mind "changed". Go for it: change my mind. I'm not spoiling for a fight -- I genuinely don't like being "wrong."

Not op, but to phrase it another way, consider if it's benificial to worry about - vote for who you want etc. But that doesn't mean you have to watch every political "event" - you'll just burn yourself out. I'm not saying bad things aren't happening - just that if there's nothing more you can do, try not to envolope your life with it. It's like high school drama - it can feel like it's your entire world but in realit…

I understand what you're saying and I would if I could (and I try). But my understanding of things is that shit's gonna get a lot worse.

If it was just me I'd say fuck it, party and watch the world burn. But I have kids, and I don't want to go down without a fight.

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#397

Post by skissane » Thu, May 28, 2020, 6:18 AM UTC

anbende wrote: post #358

conistonwater wrote: post #177

Diagnostic criteria for anxiety and depression are very broad because they are necessary as tools for practicing doctors seeing patients (as opposed to applying them to a random selection of people). If you turn the process back, and just ask how many people in the population fit under them, you'll always, even in normal times, get an unexpectedly large number. That doesn't imply that anything is wrong or that anythi…

I'm a PhD in clinical psychology, currently working with clients, whose research has focused on the psychometric evaluation of questionnaire measures. I have no idea what you're talking about. The diagnostic criteria are not "very broad because they are necessary as tools". The diagnostic criteria are meant to be sufficient criteria for diagnosing a disorder. Questionnaire-based measures act as a scientifically valid…

> Over-diagnosis is only an issue in cases where prevalence is below the false positive rate (technical term is "sensitivity") of the test. That is not the case here.

The term "overdiagnosis" is actually ambiguous. As [1] points out, the word is used in two different ways: (a) to argue that the diagnostic criteria (such as in the DSM-5) are overly broad, and are labelling people as having a "disorder" who shouldn't be so labelled ("pathologising of normal human experience"); (b) to argue that the diagnostic criteria are being systematically over-applied, where people who don't actually meet the formal diagnostic criteria are nonetheless frequently being given the diagnosis.

[1] https://aifs.gov.au/cfca/publications/diagnosis-child-mental...

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#398

Post by TomMarius » Thu, May 28, 2020, 6:28 AM UTC

imgabe wrote: post #372

anbende wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PhD in clinical psychology, currently working with clients, whose research has focused on the psychometric evaluation of questionnaire measures. I have no idea what you're talking about. The diagnostic criteria are not "very broad because they are necessary as tools". The diagnostic criteria are meant to be sufficient criteria for diagnosing a disorder. Questionnaire-based measures act as a scientifically valid…

Is feeling anxious in a potentially dangerous situation or depressed in a depressing situation really a disorder that needs to be treated? It seems like a normal response and what needs to change is the situation, not people's reaction to it.

Isn't this like asking "is it weird to feel ill during an illness"? What I mean - shouldn't humans be able to cope with these situations as "sad", but not "depressing", as depression reduces their ability to move forward?

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#399

Post by retsibsi » Thu, May 28, 2020, 7:07 AM UTC

buran77 wrote: post #281

surfpel wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also relate to this. My hope for cultural change post pandemic is that the shift towards remote work will persist after it's over. I love being an engineer but I can't stand working in an open office or commuting 2 1/2 hours a day.

For a while I wondered if I'm the outlier since I feel substantially better now than I did before going into isolation. Then some of my close friends who were on anti-depression or anti-anxiety medication told me the same. They actually stopped taking the medication for months with no signs that the symptoms are coming back. It's anecdotal and I have no idea how widespread this is or why it happens, at least to peopl…

I don't know how widely this applies, but sometimes undirected anxiety is harder to deal with than being worried about a specific thing. And if you're going to be anxious no matter what, then external circumstances might not affect the intensity of the anxiety as much as would seem logical. So it's possible that some people have benefited from having a very concrete threat to focus on, and relatively clear steps to minimise the risk.

(I'm not trying to push this too far: I assume it mostly applies to people who have enough control over their lives to take the necessary precautions, and who are fortunate enough that the threat to them and their loved ones remains a possibility rather than a tragic reality. And I know that the exact opposite can happen: sometimes external threats just multiply the pre-existing anxiety and make it even harder to cope.)

Re: A third of Americans now show signs of clinical anxiety or depression

#400

Post by paulddraper » Thu, May 28, 2020, 7:16 AM UTC

kitotik wrote: post #247

warent wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you live in a city? It sounds like you might enjoy living in a small town much more. Many small towns are very similar to what you just described all the time.

As a self-proclaimed weirdo and staunch individualist, small towns can be very difficult to just mind your own business in. Literally everything you do or don’t do tends to get noticed and talked about amongst the residents. There’s something to be said for the anonymity of large urban center.

No one can talk about you if they can't see you though.

I hope to own 5 wooded acres, so I don't even have to see anyone.