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Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

bbc.com

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Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#391

Post by aetimmes »

conanbatt wrote: post #358
aetimmes wrote: post #132

I'm a US male who's 1 month into my 6 months fully-paid paternity leave with our first child. My wife has roughly 4.5 months between banked PTO and FMLA/disability leave. I'm sitting at home right now watching/changing/feeding our baby while my wife is out at doctor's appointments taking care of her health. Having the flexibility to practice a modicum of self-care without neglecting the health and happiness of our ch…

Would you have taken 6 months off without pay to do what you are doing now?

If I could afford it, absolutely. In reality, my mortgage and other financial commitments would likely have necessitated me going back to work.

What we likely would have done instead is staggered my wife's medical leave with a shorter chunk of my own PTO rather than both of us being home at the same time, and put the baby into childcare earlier than we're currently planning on doing.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#392

Post by the_af »

growlist wrote: post #387
enumjorge wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The erosion of wages has many causes, not just women having more equal opportunity in the workforce. I’d argue wages have been much more affected by the accumulation of wealth into the top of the food chain. And that aside, what’s the alternative? Relegate women to work only as teachers and secretaries because some of them want to be stay at home moms?

> And that aside, what’s the alternative? Relegate women to work only as teachers and secretaries because some of them want to be stay at home moms? I was just pointing out that along with the women who cannot wait to get back to work there are also plenty that are perfectly happy to give up work forever - for some having a child and especially the early years are the most meaningful thing that happens in their entir…

> This is the paradoxical nature of the thing: attempt to emancipate women; in reality end up making them work like dogs for 40 years and (for many soon it seems) die childless.

This is begging the question. Nothing you've said has shown this is the reality.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#393

Post by failuser »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #162

As an American, I find it hard to be patriotic about my country when my fellow citizens can’t muster up the political will to ensure any paid parental leave for most people. Edit: changed parental leave to paid parental leave

Is paid paternal leave viewed as a good thing by most voters (or voters represented by the larger part of the electoral college/senate seats)? That can be viewed as a factor that erodes the remains of traditional family.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#394

Post by dragonwriter »

ipnon wrote: post #370
dragonwriter wrote: post #111

The US, federally, already gives dads he same parental leave as moms. (It's crap, but it's the same crap.)

Do you mean employees of the federal government? How long is the leave? Is it paid?

> Do you mean employees of the federal government?

No, I mean most workers, under FMLA.

> How long is the leave?

12 weeks.

> Is it paid?

No.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#396

Post by hising »

zajio1am wrote: post #353
hising wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation So what type of conversation are you having right now? We have word in swedish for using that type of "arguing", it is "offerkofta". I dont think it is a good word for it in english, but starting a discussion in an open forum saying something and then stating you are not "ALLOWED" to discuss what you are discussing is just…

Well, considering that original post was immediately downvoted into unreadability, it has a bit of point.

Not agreeing is not the same as not allowing. I think this is a false logic. I see a lot of people mistaken freedom of speech with some god-given right of being listened to.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#398

Post by hising »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #350
hising wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation So what type of conversation are you having right now? We have word in swedish for using that type of "arguing", it is "offerkofta". I dont think it is a good word for it in english, but starting a discussion in an open forum saying something and then stating you are not "ALLOWED" to discuss what you are discussing is just…

This is a mostly anonymous forum which is slightly more open to controversial ideas than the average media outlet. Any person openly questioning the effectiveness of treating men and women as exact equals is usually treated as some sort of ultra conservative or fringe figure in the media. People in general have a hard time understanding the idea that there are different scales of value. The old Einstein quote about a…

As I said earlier, you have your right to an opinion, and can express it freely. If it feels awkward for you to not being agreed with or people not liking your views is not the same as someone not allowing you to have that opinion. So feel free to say and argue whatever you want, but people not liking what you say or people thinking you are having a strange opinion and rather not discussing with you have nothing to do with not allowing you to express that opinon. Saying that you are not allowed to have an opinion kills conversations.

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#399

Post by nec4b »

hising wrote: post #344
ceilingcorner wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation. To state the obvious fact that men and women are different and have different strengths and weaknesses (in general, as a sex) is tantamount to heresy, I guess because gender roles are associated with perceived past injustices. > Personally, I find that this "gender equality" push winds up being extraordinarily anti-woman in…

> The problem in contemporary culture is that we are not even allowed to have this conversation So what type of conversation are you having right now? We have word in swedish for using that type of "arguing", it is "offerkofta". I dont think it is a good word for it in english, but starting a discussion in an open forum saying something and then stating you are not "ALLOWED" to discuss what you are discussing is just…

Had you bothered to read this little sub thread, you would have noticed that the original post was down voted into oblivion. Is that what you call a conversation in Sweden?

Re: Finland to give dads same parental leave as mums

#400

Post by zackmorris »

JackFr wrote: post #384

Where does the money come from? I'm an American and so I'm less familiar with other countries policies. I get that mandating a very generous family leave policy is wonderful for parents and good for society. To me it seems it's gotta be tough for small business owners though. A business of lets say 8 employees simply cannot afford a paid six month leave without it impacting its performance. How is that handled in tho…

Without knowing anything about it, I'm inclined to think that it's a combination of Finland's offshore oil drilling income of at least $5.23 billion and their tax rate of 51.6%:

https://oec.world/en/profile/country/fin/

https://tradingeconomics.com/finland/personal-income-tax-rat...

The US has a lower top income tax rate of 37%:

https://www.debt.org/tax/brackets/

Other more democratic socialism leaning countries redistribute income tax from the wealthy to fund the needs of the general population, but the US just gives that money to people who are already rich. Supposedly this raises all incomes, but incomes have not risen appreciably since the mid 1970s:

https://economics.stackexchange.com/questions/15558/producti...

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