Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties • Hacker News Board

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#391

Post by taneq » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:40 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #309

nf8nnfufuu wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't get it. Somebody having assistants who look like models and are from Eastern Europe is suspicious of trafficking women? How? Why? I have heard about Epstein, obviously with hindsight all sorts of things he did can be seen in a new light. I just don't understand what is so damning about the passage above. Would somebody who is trafficking women really take them everywhere he goes? I thought it would be…

Epstein was clearly a pedophile. Even at the time in question, it was already quite clear that he was a pedophile. So that's what's so damning. Trafficking of young women from the former Soviet Union is a complicated issue. During the collapse, and well into the 90s and mid 00s, many people were desperate. Literally starving, with ~no public services. And many criminals took advantage of that, recruiting young women…

> So I guess that Epstein was just trying to maintain a pretense of legitimacy.

Or just felt untouchable.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#392

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:42 AM UTC

Not too long ago someone posted this: https://www.wired.com/story/joi-ito-ai-and-bus-routes/ Basically, Mr. Ito describes his role in torpedoing a change to bus routes that would have had significant benefits for most students in a school district. He wrote a shitty op ed about it and got the plan cancelled without ever interviewing the people who had designed it. He had thought they hadn't engaged the community, but in fact there was a lengthy community engagement process that led up to the plan. The parents who were mad were wealthy parents who would have had slightly less convenient bus schedules.

Anyway, in this retrospective he never apologizes for his blunder. I'm not really sad to see him go. He seems like a bad character.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#393

Post by pmoriarty » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

akhilcacharya wrote: post #387

freyr wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ito reminds me of Epstein in that I have no idea how either got their money. Wikipedia must be skipping over some important details, but it describes him as a two-time college dropout, a nightclub manager in Japan, (EDIT: nevermind, mystery solved! His MIT bio says he was the founder of Japan's Digital Garage and CEO of its first ISP [1]), then he's the president of MIT Media Lab, visiting Harvard Law School professo…

I remember articles from when he was hired about how his last big leadership role was running a World of Warcraft guild

In my own memory, at the time Ito was best known for having a gee-whiz style tech blog. Then for some reason he got hired to manage MIT's Media Lab -- a real head scratcher.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#394

Post by docker_up » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

telaelit wrote: post #373

docker_up wrote: post #350

I don't understand the outrage. He was convicted of a crime, and he served his time. In hindsight, the sentence was too light, but as regular people are we really supposed to understand all the details? If I met someone who went to jail, should she be exiled forever after serving her sentence? I just don't understand. And people get lenient sentences all the time, am I as a non-lawyer supposed to understand this and…

He raped and trafficked underage girls. He video taped them and flaunted them around powerful people. You really want to defend a monster like that?

I'm perfectly okay with executing rapists, sex traffickers, etc, if that were the sentence imposed.

But if you don't impose a life sentence, but then believe a person should continue to pay for their crimes after the amount determined by a court of law, isn't that hypocrisy? Having someone serve their sentence in jail but then making them never able to interact in society again because of outrage over their crime is fundamentally unfair. If you're going to do that, then just execute them or throw them in jail forever, because that's effectively what they're doing. And as I said, I'm perfectly okay with making execution for crimes the punishment for a large swathe of crimes, including everything that Epstein did.

And even worse, if someone believes that a person deserves the right to be forgiven for their sins, and they are thrown into the same bucket for even associating with them, is that even fair?

Apparently Bill Gates met with Epstein several times after his conviction. Should he be punished as well?

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#395

Post by empath75 » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:44 AM UTC

docker_up wrote: post #350

I don't understand the outrage. He was convicted of a crime, and he served his time. In hindsight, the sentence was too light, but as regular people are we really supposed to understand all the details? If I met someone who went to jail, should she be exiled forever after serving her sentence? I just don't understand. And people get lenient sentences all the time, am I as a non-lawyer supposed to understand this and…

He never served his time and he continued to commit crimes and yes, people are allowed to not want to associate with someone who raped children and helped others to rape children.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#396

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:45 AM UTC

kortilla wrote: post #388

jacobolus wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> talent is producing value at a scale unprecedented As far as I can tell, much of this “value” consists of inserting oneself into existing money flows and diverting a tiny part into one’s own pocket, at the expense of everyone else in the society. Wages in the broader society have been stagnant for decades despite steep increases in labor productivity. Healthcare, housing, and education costs keep skyrocketing witho…

>As far as I can tell, much of this “value” consists of inserting oneself into existing money flows and diverting a tiny part into one’s own pocket, at the expense of everyone else in the society. Then you should keep “what you can tell” to yourself. People that sit in the middle and provide no value are quickly competed out of business without the protection of some kind of government mandate to be a middleman.

[deleted]

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#397

Post by asveikau » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:45 AM UTC

acdha wrote: post #379

asveikau wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone care to explain the down votes? I am not defending anyone implicated, or claiming knowledge of specifics, but saying that vetting donors in a world where the category of "criminal-philanthropist" is a thing probably gets difficult.

You should read the article and https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-an-elite-univer... and then ask yourself whether concerns about learning something retroactively are relevant to a situation where the problem was not just known in advance but established to the point that Ito had to circumvent MIT’s existing ban. Follow by considering whether bringing up generic distractions which don’t apply to this speci…

You appear angry at me. I didn't argue anything in bad faith or attempt to distract anyone. Nor do I think the thing I said is totally irrelevant. There is a generic thing to be said about the "criminal-philanthropist" concept, it is a topic that many of us have not considered until stories in recent years, which seem to be a trend of more than one such offender, brought it to the forefront.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#398

Post by m0zg » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:47 AM UTC

Contrarian view: as long as the person in question was not compromised by e.g. flights to the pedo island (like Bubba Clinton, who took dozens of flights, dismissing USSS on a number of them for some reason, hmm), and as long as the integrity of the lab was not affected by Epstein's involvement, I see nothing wrong with taking his money. He's despicable, sure, but if he's not buying influence, I'm OK with him supporting science rather than blowing that money on satisfying wealthy pedophiles.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#399

Post by docker_up » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:47 AM UTC

chasing wrote: post #385

docker_up wrote: post #350

I don't understand the outrage. He was convicted of a crime, and he served his time. In hindsight, the sentence was too light, but as regular people are we really supposed to understand all the details? If I met someone who went to jail, should she be exiled forever after serving her sentence? I just don't understand. And people get lenient sentences all the time, am I as a non-lawyer supposed to understand this and…

I will reserve the right to not do business with pedophiles and sex traffickers — even if they have served time in prison for their crimes. And I reserve the right to judge people who do harshly, especially since I know that horrible people sometimes use these sorts of donations to launder their reputation and I don’t want to be anywhere near that. Want to remain a part of polite civic society? Don’t rape kids.

I believe in your right to do so.

But what about people who feel otherwise and think that by serving out his sentence he has paid for their sins? If those people associate with criminals who have served their sentence, are those people worse in your eyes? It seems like not only is redemption for criminals no longer allowed, but you're not allowed to believe in redemption for others as well.

Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties

#400

Post by rhizome » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 1:48 AM UTC

freyr wrote: post #367

nickpinkston wrote: post #10

I'm not sure if this is self-aware or not, but Ito's fund is called:"Neoteny", meaning "the retention of child-like attributes through adulthood". Apparently, Epstein's funds / projects were named with innuendos. (edited) https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/neoteny#section-over...

Ito reminds me of Epstein in that I have no idea how either got their money. Wikipedia must be skipping over some important details, but it describes him as a two-time college dropout, a nightclub manager in Japan, (EDIT: nevermind, mystery solved! His MIT bio says he was the founder of Japan's Digital Garage and CEO of its first ISP [1]), then he's the president of MIT Media Lab, visiting Harvard Law School professo…

Beyond the business stuff, he was basically Japan's first Western-style (Wired, Mondo 2000, etc.) New Media personality. Back in the early 90s he also took form as an action sports impresario, techno culture maven, and theorizing gadabout.