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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#391

Post by philipps »

berbec wrote: post #383
Angostura wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if we're going that route, Google is an an advertising company, whose only goal is to harvest your data to maximise advertising revenue.

Yes, that is exactly their goal. Google services, from the Play store to search to Google plus is all designed with exactly this in mind. What most people don't understand is "if you're not paying for the product, you are the product. When I use Gmail, I know what I'm signing up for.

I don’t remember where I first heard this, but increasingly “if you’re not paying for the product, you’re the training data.”. (Doesn’t invalidate your point, which I agree with)

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#392

Post by dannyw »

andrepd wrote: post #306
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

Actually, it would be against their Privacy Policy; and they would get a fine of up to (5%? 10%?) of their annual turnover fined by the EU under GDPR if they did.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#393

Post by dannyw »

module0000 wrote: post #64
malchow wrote: post #29

This would seem to be a fairly monumental breach of the duty Google owes consumers.

edited summary: The 'duty' is owed to shareholders, not to you. That duty is to generate profits and protect shareholders' investment. That's not how commerce works(anymore). You are technically a consumer...and you are fundamentally the "product". Companies buying advertising are the actual consumer - to which you(ie your data) are for sale. If you cannot look at it that way, modern corporate America/Elsewhere will…

Fortunately, with the EU GDPR coming into effect mid 2018, companies can be fined up to 4% of their global annual turnover for each breach of a specific provision; and 2% for each breach of other lessor provisions.

That should hopefully make these actions uneconomical.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#394

Post by pbhjpbhj »

MaysonL wrote: post #367
marcosdumay wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you know that exactly how? Or, maybe more relevant, how do I get to know that?

Talk and listen to Apple and ex-Apple people.

That's not scalable to the entire market of people wanting mobile devices, in case you didn't realise.

The question the GP was almost certainly asking was "how can the public confirm that security of their data is high on the agenda of Apple (and by extension any company), what systems are in place". Without third-party review of open systems and practices I can't see it being possible.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#395

Post by pbhjpbhj »

dannyw wrote: post #392
andrepd wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

Actually, it would be against their Privacy Policy; and they would get a fine of up to (5%? 10%?) of their annual turnover fined by the EU under GDPR if they did.

How will the EU audit Apple to confirm the privacy policy is not being breeched, or how will people know about such a breech on Apple's part in order to notify the authorities?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#396

Post by codfrantic »

commentonswish wrote: post #313
dTal wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>de facto standard mobile payment Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. >official store membership and coupon apps Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer. >banking apps Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have crea…

> Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. Surprisingly, it’s not! A non-Swedish friend studying in Sweden recently told me of a situation (I forget the exact details) where she could not pay with cash. They only accepted payment via Swish[^1] (mobile payment system). At the time she was with a Swedish friend which was the one to pay for both of them, with my friend paying her friend in cash. [^1]: https://www.the…

Same in the Netherlands, more and more shops are electronic payment only. Cash is a cost and a risk to them.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#397

Post by JetSpiegel »

andrepd wrote: post #309
iaml wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOSP is certainly more open, but half the system and its apps are provided through gapps which are also black box binary blobs that you can't easily dissect.

Well don't install gapps then, run F-droid and yalp store.

Have you seen any Android smartphone that came without Gapps?

You have to be pro-active about removing them, it's an opt-in choice.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#398

Post by JetSpiegel »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #265
iaml wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess is flashing LineageOS + microG + yalp store is closest you can get.

Only if you're not bothered by the fact that you'll be giving up on the vast majority of apps that most people use.

Like what?

You can have a FLOSS Browser (Firefox) and eMail (K9), that takes care of almost all use cases for smartphone usage.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#400

Post by glenneroo »

sjwright wrote: post #373
saiya-jin wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guys, this is all just plain old wishful thinking. Neither you, nor me, nor most people here have any real clue what decisions are being done behind closed doors of Apple, or other companies. All the high profile cases are mostly PR-oriented, see how PRISM was handled (not that they had any choice, but it is what it is). Don't attach these emotions where they are not appropriate. Apple is a for-profit company. If the…

I think you massively overestimate the power of the US government. What would they do if Apple said no? Shut them down? Put Tim Cook in jail? Never going to happen. That perception of power might exist against mere civilians, but not against the big multinationals. Apple has engineered their products to be unbreakable by Apple. That says a lot about their desire to cooperate! Apple's billions held internationally are…

You underestimate the power of the NSA, CIA, FBI and in general the US government. They don't need to imprison the CEO or shut them down, there are subtle yet nefarious ways of getting what they want. Anyways let's forget this part, it's just speculation from both of us.

According to their privacy policy[0], they comply with requests by the government for user data and inform the user unless gagged.

> In the second half of 2016, Apple received between 5,750 and 5,999 National Security Orders.

If their products are unbreakable, how can they provide this data to the government?

[0]: https://www.apple.com/privacy/government-information-request...

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