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Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

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Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#301

Post by Angostura »

dleslie wrote: post #243
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

Apple is a lifestyle and fashion company moreso than a software or hardware company; yes, Nike makes shoes and Ralph Lauren sells shirts, but they are not best described as shoe or clothing manufacturers first and foremost. Jobs understood this.

if we're going that route, Google is an an advertising company, whose only goal is to harvest your data to maximise advertising revenue.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#302

Post by andrepd »

IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

I don't follow. The alternative to using proprietary software that has proven to be malicious is... to use another proprietary device?

No. The alternative is to install Lineage OS, don't install any Google trash, use F-droid only and a Play Store interface if you have to.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#303

Post by Angostura »

literallycancer wrote: post #161
megy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, get one second hand and it will be even cheaper. The point was it is not $700 for security.

Ever tried using an old iPhone?

My daughter's on a 4S. Still trucking on.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#304

Post by astura »

dTal wrote: post #272
KozmoNau7 wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using F-Droid and Yalp and avoiding the Google Play Store is only an option if your needs are very limited. As far as I know, there are no widely-adopted mobile payment apps anywhere else, certainly the de facto standard mobile payment app in my country is only available on the official app stores. The same goes for banking apps and all official store membership and coupon apps, just to mention a few categories of ap…

>de facto standard mobile payment Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. >official store membership and coupon apps Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer. >banking apps Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have crea…

Cash is not accepted "everywhere." Some examples of places that sometimes don't take cash: Parking garages, airplanes, bus kiosks, vending machines, online stores.

I went to a festival earlier this year and the door tickets were card-only.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#305

Post by Angostura »

bovermyer wrote: post #143
IBM wrote: post #63

It's amazing to me how many comments here excuse Google's behavior by offering the impractical "solution" of just not using a smartphone (a false dilemma) when the obvious answer is to get an iPhone. That's the advice of pretty much everyone in the infosec field and I'm sure some of them will attest to that in this thread.

I would much rather have a "feature" phone or no mobile at all than have an iPhone again, even if it were free. Living in a walled garden to escape prying eyes is sacrificing freedom for security.

Which freedoms are in practice giving up? The freedom to run Apps that could circumvent the protections put in place to protect your privacy and data?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#306

Post by andrepd »

JonFish85 wrote: post #135
lemagedurage wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative. A more sensible way of dealing wirh the issue would be to use an open source Android version like AOSP or LineageOS, not run proprietary gapps, and replace its functionality with F-Droid, MicroG and Yalp-store. Your location will stay out of Apple's/Google's hands and you ca…

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#307

Post by andrepd »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #293
dTal wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>de facto standard mobile payment Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. >official store membership and coupon apps Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades, you don't suddenly need to run arbitrary code on my pocket supercomputer. >banking apps Safer to use the website. My bank authenticates you by having you enter your PIN into a card reader - although they have crea…

>Is called cash :) It's accepted everywhere. A lot of people refuse to carry any significant amount of cash. It is a risk factor, especially when at events and shows or just during busy shopping hours, due to pickpockets. An app with verified identity (using the national 2FA login system in my country) is significantly more secure. >Should all be burned anyway. Plastic cards and bits of paper worked fine for decades,…

>It's a bunch of silly plastic cards that I then I have to carry around in my wallet or remember to bring from home when going shopping

You're willing to sacrifice your privacy for this little convenience?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#308

Post by blibble »

sjwright wrote: post #199
slaman wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent argument is that without transparency it's difficult to actually know. Apple's true incentive is to provide value for their shareholders. If they can improve the value provided to shareholders by hoovering up information while also maintaining consumer confidence and sales then why would they not? I think that Apple's incentives are better aligned with my desires for privacy, but it's only an assumption.

> why would they not? Because this sort of thing inevitably leaks? Apple has a formula that demonstrably works, a formula that everyone can directly observe making them an utterly stupid amount of money. It would be the height of stupidity to risk their unparalleled monetary successes to pursue a few dirty little crumbs.

outside of the nerds, how much of a percentage of apple users would switch if it did come out they had been doing this?

it's going to be less than 1%

... and where are they going to go?

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#309

Post by andrepd »

iaml wrote: post #284
Splines wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand people in this thread defending Apple when AOSP is clearly more open. Yes, Apple has done well so far, but at the end of the day what are you going to trust? A talking head, or the actual code running on your device? It smells of rationalization for anyone to say that it would not be in Apple's interest to collect personal information.

AOSP is certainly more open, but half the system and its apps are provided through gapps which are also black box binary blobs that you can't easily dissect.

Well don't install gapps then, run F-droid and yalp store.

Re: Google collects cell tower info even if location services are disabled

#310

Post by planb »

andrepd wrote: post #306
JonFish85 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Apple provides a black box with iOS, they have full control. Maybe the next iOS update comes with privacy intrusion because it's more lucrative." This is true, but it's also potentially worthwhile to consider that Apple has positioned themselves as a hardware company (i.e. the majority of their money is based on selling units of hardware), whereas their main competitor here (Google) is an ad company (i.e. the majori…

That's smoke and mirrors. What guarantees you that Apple isn't collecting your location right now ? It's proprietary software, so you wouldn't know, and it's perfectly within the terms of their EULA. You're just gonna trust that they don't (even though they are a business and that can potentially make them more money)? Or are you gonna know your phone isn't spying in you by installing free software on your device?

Did you check and compile every line of code that runs on your phone? If not, than that's also smoke and mirrors. I guess it's easier to get evil patches into any open source component on a "free" phone than to get them into an iOS release.
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