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Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

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Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#391

Post by BenjaminCoe »

tmh79 wrote: post #342
kbenson wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you really want to understand just how impressive this was: I have no doubt it's impressive. I'm impressed. I'm not trying to diminish that in any way. > you could say the same thing about top-roping vs lead climbing (placing protection from the ground up). Yes, top-roping is much safer, but the experience & sense of achievement is just not the same. My question is why is the sense of achievement not the same. I…

Free soloing is "inherently easier" in the physical sense when you abstract danger from situation, climbing with ropes slows a team down significantly. That is one of the reasons AH was able to climb the route in 4 hours as opposed to the usual 4 days. In your hypothetical scenario the answer is yes, if there is no danger, the achievement of climbing without ropes is lessened. The experience of free soloing is to sma…

Free soloing is actually a bit slower than the fastest free-climbers, which I found interesting: http://adventureblog.nationalgeographic.com/2012/06/25/alex-...

The time spent being especially careful that you don't fall, adds a bit more time than racing up with ropes.

Fun fact, Alex Honnold holds the speed record on El Cap.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#392

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

Why is this celebrated? The man could die. Is it for our amusement? You take someone, you give him sponsors, you make him think risking his life to make a living this way is his own choice? Between fame and money, and a life working as a clerk in some office ... what choice could there be.

I imagine it's like the choice for slaves in ancient Rome between being a house slave or becoming a gladiator. Fame and riches maybe ... death maybe.

Why does society accept this behavior as normal?

The welfare state will bear the cost if he lands hard and is paralyzed. If he dies, his loved ones will bear the cost.

For all this, what do we get in concrete terms? The knowledge that a human has risked his life for something so meaningless? Some "sweet photos, dude".

Madness really. How does everyone accept this as normal?

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#393

Post by nimchimpsky »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #392

Why is this celebrated? The man could die. Is it for our amusement? You take someone, you give him sponsors, you make him think risking his life to make a living this way is his own choice? Between fame and money, and a life working as a clerk in some office ... what choice could there be. I imagine it's like the choice for slaves in ancient Rome between being a house slave or becoming a gladiator. Fame and riches ma…

> How does everyone accept this as normal?

Eh, no one thinks this is normal. Hence all the publicity.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#394

Post by cromulent »

kbenson wrote: post #336
jjaredsimpson wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to embrace the ambiguity in natural languages. Life and death can be simply considered opposites. In this mode of thinking any risky behavior is trading in death at the peril of life. However you can also imagine a justification along these lines: There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Some of these are familiar things like falling in love or…

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable , and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stat…

I know a lot of people who engage in dangerous sports, and I have done so myself. None of them do it because of some sense of cheating death - they do it because it is enormously fun and fulfilling. They walk away when the conditions are not right. If they wanted to cheat death, they would not.

The fact that it happens to be extremely dangerous means you take more care, but that is not the source of the pleasure. It's the cost of admission. Some won't pay it. Some will.

I really like that you are not judging him. I have seen people dismissed as stupid, as if they don't understand the risks. That's like calling a person stupid if they smoke. They aren't cheating death, they are enjoying cigarettes (and they are addicted, probably). But not stupid or ignorant.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#395

Post by warent »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #392

Why is this celebrated? The man could die. Is it for our amusement? You take someone, you give him sponsors, you make him think risking his life to make a living this way is his own choice? Between fame and money, and a life working as a clerk in some office ... what choice could there be. I imagine it's like the choice for slaves in ancient Rome between being a house slave or becoming a gladiator. Fame and riches ma…

> The man could die.

People die all the time doing much more mundane things

> Is it for our amusement?

Awe and inspiration are the first ones that came to my mind actually. Nobody manipulated him to consider doing this since 2009. Rock climbing is clearly his life.

> You take someone, you give him sponsors, you make him think risking his life to make a living this way is his own choice? Between fame and money, and a life working as a clerk in some office ... what choice could there be.

I work with genius doctors every day at Google. Truly great people choose their lives, weather it's quietly solving problems in an office, or scaling massive cliffs without gear. People who aren't in control of their own lives tend to think other people's lives are out of control as well.

Just do what you love... Passing judgement at things we don't understand is such a waste of human potential

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#396

Post by jraby3 »

TheMagicHorsey wrote: post #392

Why is this celebrated? The man could die. Is it for our amusement? You take someone, you give him sponsors, you make him think risking his life to make a living this way is his own choice? Between fame and money, and a life working as a clerk in some office ... what choice could there be. I imagine it's like the choice for slaves in ancient Rome between being a house slave or becoming a gladiator. Fame and riches ma…

You could die doing anything. It's his life to live and he shouldn't be restricted in how he wishes to live or die. And it's celebrated because it's a form of bravery not all of us have but many of us respect.

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#397

Post by Cyph0n »

cromulent wrote: post #394
kbenson wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are certain things we humans can do which give us access to unique highly desirable mental states. Sure. If cheating death is the path to that state for some people, that's understandable , and not really something new. I'm not judging him, this isn't some roundabout way to say people shouldn't free-solo. I'm literally trying to figure out if there's something else to it I'm missing, because the way it's stat…

I know a lot of people who engage in dangerous sports, and I have done so myself. None of them do it because of some sense of cheating death - they do it because it is enormously fun and fulfilling. They walk away when the conditions are not right. If they wanted to cheat death, they would not. The fact that it happens to be extremely dangerous means you take more care, but that is not the source of the pleasure. It'…

I don't think smoking is a fair analogy. Free climbing is an awe inspiring sport, while smoking is a deadly and addictive habit with zero advantages whatsoever.

I first read about free climbing in an issue of National Geographic almost a decade ago. I never once recall thinking that it was "stupid": on the contrary, it quickly jumped up my list of interesting sports (below chess boxing).

Re: Alex Honnold Scales El Capitan Without Ropes, and the Climbing World Reels

#398

Post by kdbg »

Cyph0n wrote: post #397
cromulent wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people who engage in dangerous sports, and I have done so myself. None of them do it because of some sense of cheating death - they do it because it is enormously fun and fulfilling. They walk away when the conditions are not right. If they wanted to cheat death, they would not. The fact that it happens to be extremely dangerous means you take more care, but that is not the source of the pleasure. It'…

I don't think smoking is a fair analogy. Free climbing is an awe inspiring sport, while smoking is a deadly and addictive habit with zero advantages whatsoever. I first read about free climbing in an issue of National Geographic almost a decade ago. I never once recall thinking that it was "stupid": on the contrary, it quickly jumped up my list of interesting sports (below chess boxing).

Minor correction but a lot of people make the mistake, free climbing is what Ondra did on El Capitan's Dawn Wall last year. Where you climb with ropes but do not use it for any aid in climbing.

What Honnold has done is free soloing which is climbing without rope for protection.

They sound similar but are significantly different.

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