This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University • Hacker News Board

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#391

Post by javajosh » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:07 PM UTC

coderdude wrote: post #353

lghh wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by weed out? What are you expecting to do with them? (Not attacking, just asking)

By weeding out I simply mean to ignore. Though weeding out also suggests identifying them as well.

I think there's something to the idea of "consensual communication". It's odd that we don't allow people to shove food into your mouth without asking but we surely allow people to shovel words into your brain without asking. "Safe spacers" just want a generalization of an ad blocker, and I for one support their right to it (even the ones that go way too far, because determining that is not up to me.)

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#392

Post by forrestthewoods » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

edc117 wrote: post #380

forrestthewoods wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is HackerNews a safe-space for programmers? If you say anything negative about PG or silicon valley, you are downvoted. If you don't follow its rules, you are banned. If you don't have the same opinion as everyone else, don't follow the strict posting guidelines you are kicked out. It's philosophy is all fund raising capitialism, if you try something crazy you don't get funded. Isn't HackerNews just an extreme safe-s…

When you throw terms like 'the liberal left' into the discussion, it really derails any point you're trying to make. I'll be the first to admit I don't really watch much political discourse, but I've seen plenty of this behavior from pretty much everyone. IMO maybe, but stay objective.

The safe space and microaggression movement is primarily a left/liberal/progressive movement. That is objective.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#393

Post by jccc » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

The subject of the sermon to which the student objected was 1 Corinthians 13, about "love."

It would be helpful to know what the student was actually claiming made her/him feel victimized, because given the nature of the university it's easy to imagine how the talk might have included at least some implicit comment about sexuality.

http://www.okwu.edu/blog/2015/11/pat-campbell-and-dr-piper-o...

EDIT: Point being that the story as told by the president is likely to differ from the reality. Could the student have simply come forward to say, hey look there are in fact LGBT students here, I don't agree with this interpretation of scripture, just want to make it known.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#394

Post by coldpie » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:09 PM UTC

tdkl wrote: post #366

coldpie wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting that according to that NYTimes link, offensive speech is considered protected "free speech," while people objecting to offensive speech does not qualify. I have just as much a right to tell you you're an asshole and not welcome near me as you do to say offensive things to me.

"Free speech" and "freedom of acting like a little bitch" are two different things though.

Lol

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#395

Post by coderdude » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

javajosh wrote: post #391

coderdude wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By weeding out I simply mean to ignore. Though weeding out also suggests identifying them as well.

I think there's something to the idea of "consensual communication". It's odd that we don't allow people to shove food into your mouth without asking but we surely allow people to shovel words into your brain without asking. "Safe spacers" just want a generalization of an ad blocker, and I for one support their right to it (even the ones that go way too far, because determining that is not up to me.)

We might be arguing for different things. I don't believe in a blanket safe-spacer type. I think we all sometimes desire a place where our thoughts and beliefs are not challenged. For most, that is their family or a close circle of friends. I don't think it's appropriate to allow every venue to be a safe space.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#396

Post by danharaj » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:10 PM UTC

jazzyk wrote: post #201

maaku wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

As to women on campus, NCVS, the agency of the United States Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) reports around 0.4% rape rate, two orders of magnitude less from the numbers you quote (and if you look at the chart, decreasing over the past 20 years) From Wikipedia: A 2014 assessment by Sinozich and Langton used longitudinal data from the NCVS to measure rape and sexual assault among college aged U.S. women from 1995 t…

> owever, results reported by the NCVS are consistently lower than studies using other methodologies, and researchers have charged that the question wording, context, and sampling methodology used on the NCVS leads a systematic underestimate of the incidence of rape and sexual assault.[5][14][15] A recent assessment of the NCVS methodology conducted by the National Research Council pointed to four flaws in the NCSV approach: the use of a sampling methodology that was inefficient in measuring low-incidence events like rape and sexual assault; the ambiguous wording questions related to sexual violence; the criminal justice definitions of assault; and the lack of privacy offered to survey respondents (phone interview vs. completely anonymous survey). The authors concluded that these flaws make it "highly likely that the National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) is underestimating rape and sexual assault."[5] The NCVS also differs from other studies by including off campus students among its statistics. Since the risk of assault is higher for students living on campus, the 0.6% reported assault rate is lower than rates reported for campus environments.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#397

Post by SolaceQuantum » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:13 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #287

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you are dismissing claims as social justice and then trying to claim you are a more logically minded person. How is the claim that not all asian people agree with your father or had traumatic experiences with terrorism also invalidating experiences your father had? You claim to be a logical minded person but I'm not following the logic that your father's experiences are invalidated when someone…

Perhaps I misunderstood your post - I thought you were disagreeing and attempting to contribute to the conversation. Perhaps you were just randomly sharing your feelings for no reason?

I'm saying in a time where you are taking the experiences of your father and attributing it to all white/asian middle class people, that isn't necessarily great.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#398

Post by gotchange » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

So, it's basically a re-education (indoctrination) camp disguised as an educational institution and therefore I concur with that "prof" in his plea with that student to beat it and get the heck out of there ASAP and leave this wonderful Christian madrassa and its faculty alone pondering over extremely important theological questions.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#399

Post by potatolicious » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

aswanson wrote: post #78

sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

Along those lines, I think formal debate should be required in secondary education, and students should be required to defend the position they disagree with.

I did formal debate in high school and university, and agree with wfo - formal debate is possibly one of the worst things to teach if your goal is understanding and critical thinking about topics.

Keep in mind that in a typical formal debate you don't get to pick your sides - you are assigned a position on an issue and must successfully argue in favor of that position. Formal debate is about the art of rhetoric, and explicitly part of the expectation - and the skill taught - is the deliberate distortion/reframing of fact in order to support your case. Anyone who's done formal debates will have learned this, since you're frequently asked to argue positions you personally disagree with.

Formal debate is a craft of being convincing, not of being right.

Not to mention the structure of formal debates means there is a winner and a loser, and so compromise is impossible. The goal isn't to reach an understanding or middle ground, but to completely obliterate your opponent rhetorically. This fits poorly with real life.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#400

Post by mrbill » Tue, Dec 01, 2015, 4:15 PM UTC

lghh wrote: post #199

I have a friend who attended OKWU a few years ago. She shared this piece on Facebook in approval. From what I know from her education there, this place is essentially a "safe-space" for Christians. If you say anything negative about the religion or its teachings, you are kicked out. If you don't follow its rules, you are kicked out. If you drink, smoke, have premarital sex, are lgbtq, don't follow their strict ethics…

> It's honestly baffling because I am sure there are hundreds of very smart people there who must realize this

Everyone attends this school voluntarily, so it's not like someone was hit in the face their first day with the fact that it's a Christian-based curriculum.