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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

lesnumeriques.com

381–390 of 811 posts

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

West is just the US nowadays.

I would say West is Europe, Japan and a few others. But I think I need a new word for that one.

The West is UK, Western Europe, Australia, Canada, US, Scandinavia. I agree that Japan is a really interesting one that shares a lot with the West, but doesn't have the same cultural roots. I wouldn't be opposed if they wanted to be counted as part of the West, but I don't know if they would.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#383
post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

One thing that surprises me a lot is that in order to use Wero with my ING account, I have to give access to my contacts, which I ultimately am not going to do. I wonder how the European payment system can be so ignorant of their customers' privacy.

That has nothing to do with Wero, that's just your bank (ING) being stupid.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#384

(In French.) That could be a massive hassle for American tourists, who will still mostly have Visa and Mastercard. I'm sure that there will be some kind of solution -- I suspect Google Pay and Apple Pay will support the new network. But I'll have to keep an eye out. I might even have to start bringing cash. I used to make that the very first thing I did on landing. The last few times I didn't get any cash at all.

This is already an issue for tourists in many countries that have their own payment system (e.g. Brazil, India, Singapore, Thailand). In some of them you have companies that came up with products for tourists that allow them to pay but they usually come with fees. From what I know the majority of tourists in these countries just travel with cash.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#385
post #78

Love to see it. When Canada legalized weed in 2018, the US administration made it clear that they can ban Canadians from the US for life if they have used marijuana in the past. The administration alluded to looking at Canadian's transaction history to facilitate cracking down on this more harshly[1]. It was so clear at that point to me how badly sovereign payments and banking is so needed. FATCA is a thing, I get it…

So now that 8 years have passed since that article was written, do you have any idea how many Canadians have been banned from the US for life because they used marijuana in the past?

> credit card data can be stored in the United States, where it’s an open book to U.S. authorities, who don’t need a warrant to access it if it belongs to non-Americans

> A U.S. border guard could quickly put a Canadian in an impossible position — admit to marijuana use and be banned for that, or deny it and be banned for lying

The mechanism in the article is border agents analyzing your credit card purchases to see if you've bought legal weed. Has this become a common procedure? I've passed the border 50+ times in the last few years, I haven't yet had it happen to me. I've never had them bring up cannabis once, they've always seemed much more concerned about when I was leaving.

I think when it comes to something as important as border operations, it doesn't really add much to the conversation to share fear-mongering pieces from 8 years ago.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UK Open Banking is a counter example to this argument. It’s been a huge success. Transfers between accounts are seamless, and I never need to authorize Plaid to maintain a permanent session in a headless Chromium instance reading my bank account. The APIs are well-defined, universally supported, and include authorization scopes for viewing balance, authorizing transfers, etc. That said, I don’t do many p2p payments i…

I have not heard about UK Open Banking rails for merchants being popular. You are talking about P2P? the article is about challenging Visa/Mastercard.

The article mentions P2P is coming first. It’s also in French, so I’m relying on translation…

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#387
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. But this is a big improvement over online CC payment. I lived in the NL and Brazil, so I can compare the two, and while iDEAL is pretty good, PIX is easier to understand, explain, and deal with. PIX has more variants, you can use it for recurrent payment, split payments, financing, cashout and almost all things a CC can do nowadays. I would say Tikkie is almost as good an…

> PIX from Brazil is even better, to be honest. You lack the inherent fraud, bankruptcy and other malicious actor protection that Visa/Mastercard provides. Bought something online and didn't receive your product? With PIX you're SOL, with Visa/Mastercard you get a chargeback.

> Bought something online and didn't receive your product? With PIX you're SOL, with Visa/Mastercard you get a chargeback.

Visa/Mastercard aren't handling chargebacks, the banks are. With PIX the way to get a chargeback is the same: if you've been victim of fraud you open a claim with the bank, they'll review it, then possibly give you a charge back within a week. This review process might take longer or be denied, which requires a lawsuit.

But it's only less risky for banks to chargeback immediately on Visa/Mastercard because they make so much money from credit card fees that they can afford it.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sounds a little authoritarian for many Western countries, I imagine. If you ever had your account blocked by Apple or Google, you know exactly why a government is the better option. At least you have the rule of law on your side. Big companies are the authoritarian situation, not the government.

It deems to me that the rule of law is easier to apply to third parties than to the government that is in charge of administering it

This reminds me of how all the drug dealers use USPS because it actually requires a warrant to open the package.

If the government has to enforce banking KYC/AML itself they won't be able to hide behind all the third party fuck-fuck games and they'll get sued into oblivion. I'm sure they'll play the normal federal court and sovereign fuck-fuck games but it would be glorious trying to watch them try to enforce the BSA and Patriot act bullshit while not being able to hide behind the auspice it's just a private bank collecting the data.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it's a statistically negative sum game for the customer. Visa wouldn't offer such a service if they weren't winning out in the long run, collecting rent on every one of your purchases.

That’s like telling people not to get homeowners insurance for the same reason Like, yes, it’s technically a bad deal. But it’s still worth the extra cost for most people

Insurance like that is normally because if the potential size of the loss. Losing a house is way more than most people could stand. A closer example might be buying the extra service contract on every electronics purchase you make: that's usually a bad deal.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#390
post #355
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll need to fake much more than just that. Usually the bank website will ask you to confirm the transaction by opening the banking app on your mobile phone.

Trading a dependency on MasterCard and Visa for one on Google and Apple is at best a sidegrade. More likely you end up worse off.

> Trading a dependency on MasterCard and Visa for one on Google and Apple is at best a sidegrade.

That's really not how it works. You as the user are prompted to pick the bank you want to use, and then your bank prompts you to approve the transaction.

The only scenario I can think of that might involve google or apple is if you want to use Android or iPhone for mobile payments with NFC.

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