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Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how provocative another comment is or you feel it is. It only makes things worse.
Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
381–390 of 571 posts
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
* For the driver. Large cars/SUVs are vastly more dangerous for everyone else. Visibility in modern cars is also much worse, regardless of size.
Sorry to go against the C15 French circle jerk, but a good modern SUV is safer for everyone despite being heavier, and a SUV. First, a good SUV is an electric SUV. Whoever had the experience to be behind a C15 without HEPA filters, something you can find in a good SUV, knows that the C15 will kill you with its air pollution. It’s worse if you are doing sport on a bike or running. And trail running may not save you fr…
I'm not sure how useful it is to argue based on comparisons of that ancient car and new ones. Yes yes I know that's how it started, but I think it is obvious that a useful discussion is about looking at the principles behind that old car, and then to apply "what if" to modern ones.
I'm making this assumption based on how utterly useless it is to try to have a serious discussion that's really about that old car vs. a new one. I mean, would anyone even think about producing those same old cars with their old technology? Obviously not.
I think, in my discussions, not just this one, it would help us all A LOT if we didn't try to win an argument and limit ourselves to interpret the other people's comments in the most restricting way. Let's assume we are here to learn something other than finding ways to be "technically correct".
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and the dealership said they probably won't have any for a long time In my case, I told the dealerships I was okay with waiting up to two years to get the exact trim I wanted. I told them whichever dealership could get me an allocation first got the sale. Then I literally stood up to leave. And like magic, they went to the computer and found the exact trim I wanted and got my allocation a month out. I was extremely…
>> When I was buying my last car I went in and asked > In my case, I told Exactly. When you’re paying, you don’t ask, you tell . This is what I want, and this is what I’ll pay. Don’t get me started on fucking real estate agents either. Parasites. Real estate sells itself. Conveyancers / Solicitors do all the real work, and typically charge a set fee. Real estate agents typically charge a percentage and they literally…
Sometimes real estate agents do a lot. Anecdote of course, but my real estate agent spent a few hours basically every weekend with us for like 2-3 months as we toured 25 houses, went over ~10 inspection reports, and made 3-4 offers. And he and his team got roughly 20k. In a better housing market I think they do a lot less, but I know ours did a lot of work.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet I personally know more people who own iPhone minis (myself included) now in 2026 than that own pixel phones of any model. I think the data is distorted by the fact that most people who want things like that also don’t typically buy new (especially with cars). I did buy my iPhone 13 mini from Apple directly, but I bought it after the 14 line had already been released.
HN commenters and their friends are an extremely biased sample set. The sales numbers don’t lie about the global demand though.
I loved the iPhone 4 format factor, but prefer more recent and larger editions for battery life and battery longevity.
My only gripe with the 6.7 inch form factor would be solved if someone would just sell me a bigger hand. I can’t hold it one handed and reach the far corner of the screen without some obnoxious accessory like a Popsocket bolted to the back thereby making it impossible to use on a flat surface or fit in a pocket.
Come to think of it, Zaphod might have been on to something with that third arm.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
>I could. My wife couldn't. Because she doesn't drive a C15. Believe me, rural french women _will_ fix a C15. There's nothing to break down anyways, the engine is happy to run on distilled corn and melted rubber for oil, the suspension is what suspension, three tires ought to be enough for everyone. > rear seats, There's rear benches for you whole family and space for your kids to play around in the back while you're…
> Pickup trucks are not used by anyone serious anywhere else in the world. Excuse me?! Pickup trucks are the sole foundation of motorized defense in some regions! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technical_(vehicle)
I did mention it at the end! That said, I believe most legal systems in the world frown on such behaviour, and more crucially, they're not used for carrying your groceries or 2x4's. clearly Americans lack the courage to mount up a DShK at the back of their F150, the cowards.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
With all due respect, you are confusing a software race condition with a hard fault in a safety critical system. Resetting the ECU only works if the error is a transient glitch in the code logic. If the failure is a physical sensor reading out of range? Furthermore, modern automotive architectures store permanent diagnostic trouble codes in non volatile memory specifically to prevent people from "just resetting it" t…
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Can you please not cross-examine in HN comments? This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
We want friendly curious conversation, not questions designed to incriminate or insinuate. You're welcome, of course, to make your substantive points thoughtfully.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Like take the C15 and add 2-4 decades of manufactur…
That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my head. 1. You keep the modern metallurgy and the crumple zones. You keep ABS and basic traction control because they are solved problems that save lives without needing cloud connectivity. 2. Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in…
I can unlock my doors with my phone and monitor the cars location with my phone with cloud connectivity.
This isn't required and was offered as a 5 year free plan with optional paid extensions after
How is this bad?
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The sane environmental stuff you mentioned has morphed into a requirement for deeply integrated electronic oversight Decent catalytic converters require an array of sensors, ECU, and ability to fine control the engine inputs to work - without them most large cities would become smog ridden hells.
There's no reason technology has to be user-hostile. You can still have an ECU and screens and everything. When it breaks the screen can be used to tell you exactly which sensor input is out of range. There's no reason parts need to be serialized and learning a new part can only be done once. You can build a modern vehicle that's still repairable.
Modules need to be programmed for your vehicle specs and country because there are different laws and functions.
For example rear taillights are different in Europe vs the US.
Another is that higher trims of my car have a rear climate zone which has a different fan and actuators for air flow that the module needs to know exist.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I wonder how differently cars would be built, if instead of maximizing for value extraction and crap nobody needs, they instead were optimized for utility and maintenance (and sure, fuel economy, aerodynamics and some sane environmental stuff). Auto manufacturers already have stripped-down base models of their entry-level vehicles. Many have commercial versions of their vehicles, especially trucks and vans, that ar…
Agreed - check out for example a Toyota rav4 le. This is the base model with effectively zero modern “subscription-esque” fancy features. It’s got a touchscreen and power windows, but otherwise it’s all the reliability/etc of Toyota and that’s it. About half the price of what most rav4s are listed at and $20k+ cheaper than a 4Runner.
It has a Data Communication Module - it spies on you. If you try to remove that, you lose audio in the front right speaker.
Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
And yet I personally know more people who own iPhone minis (myself included) now in 2026 than that own pixel phones of any model. I think the data is distorted by the fact that most people who want things like that also don’t typically buy new (especially with cars). I did buy my iPhone 13 mini from Apple directly, but I bought it after the 14 line had already been released.
HN commenters and their friends are an extremely biased sample set. The sales numbers don’t lie about the global demand though.
I am aware. My point was basically that the people who wanted them weren’t lying, they really love them, and are willing to keep them for years even though they are getting slightly old now. I’m imagining this doesn’t show up in first year sales numbers in a similar way to how the things people say they want in cars typically drive used market buying not new market purchases.
I’ve tried to validate this hypothesis, but run into problems finding the data. Do you know where to find currently active numbers by model? I’m think something like browser market share charts. I’ve only been able to find numbers from the year they were released, and even that was as a percentage of total sales, not raw numbers.
My hypothesis is that minis (13 mini and 12 mini) are over represented in active phones compared to other models of that generation.