So … does xterm work? emacs? xfig? ghostview? xload? xev? oclock? xmodmap? xpilot?
motif apps? xmag? xfontsel? forwarding over ssh? ~/.XCompose? "links2 -g"?
Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
381–390 of 462 posts
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#382Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tangentially related... Is it just me, but is Wayland still lagging behind X11? From things like window placement, night light, etc. Things seem to work just out of the box in X11, and there are always issues in Wayland. (For me this is specifically on Fedora, and I always switch back to X11 from Wayland.)
At this point it is just you. I run two different distributions myself, I know a bunch o people on even more different distributions, set of configuration and based on empirical analysis I can assure you that no one has problem with windows placement. Out of the box I used have more problem with X11 (tearing and font rendering being the most annoyingly common ones) than I have with Wayland.
It's not just him, but for something else. HiDPI, Ubuntu 24.04, try OnlyOffice or VMWare Workstation. Both don't scale well. I assume other applications also don't scale well. Had to use X. And the scaling isn't even fractional, it's 2x.
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
I care about being able to use the same password between the display manager, tty and lock screen auth. Yet, I cannot. I think the original maintainers and developers of Xorg would be the best people to choose if it is worthwhile to continue working around X or do something else. Yes, X provided functionality that now WMs get to implement themselves - since the developers of Xorg worked closer to Gnome and Qt people,…
What? My screensaver password is the same as my login. > I think the original maintainers and developers of Xorg would be the best people to choose if it is worthwhile to continue working around X or do something else. "I think the owners of the Internet infrastructure would be the best people to choose what websites I'm allowed to visit" No, the users have spoken and continue to speak up that Wayland doesn't serve t…
> What? My screensaver password is the same as my login.
It is the same, yet some uppercase characters are not supported when entered via a yubikey. This has been marked as a WONTFIX. This is rather sad, because I can enter the same password in a TTY with no issues.
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
The -IMO- important part of that quote is "NOT HAVE THE TIME OR CAPACITY TO KEEP UP WITH wlroots CHANGES". X11 is backwards compatible, you do not have to "keep up" with its changes. wlroots seemingly isn't. This is a significant issue when it comes to relying on most 3rd party libraries.
> X11 is backwards compatible, you do not have to "keep up" with its changes. That's certainly one way to say "no longer developed".
That was also true back when it was actively developed though. X apps compiled a long time ago still run fine today.
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know how to get the audio stream names, the problem is the window titles. With X it's easy, just call xdotool. I'm sure it's probably easy enough on Windows and MacOS too. Wayland is the weird one for making focused window titles privileged information. Anyway, I do think I've created what should be considered basic desktop functionality here, a simple hotkey that mutes or otherwise changes the volume only of the f…
Wayland is approximately correct in this case and Windows and Mac are behind the security curve for bincompat reasons; window titles certainly leak PII. There should be a way to do it, but it is sensitive information.
Sure, but again there's no interest in actually making a standard way to do it. I can understand it being something that arbitrary applications probably shouldn't be able to access, but that somehow turns into no way to do it, or complete fragmentation where every DE does it with arbitrary differences (or, more realistically, some DEs support it and others don't).
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#387Earlier quoted context omitted.
I know how to get the audio stream names, the problem is the window titles. With X it's easy, just call xdotool. I'm sure it's probably easy enough on Windows and MacOS too. Wayland is the weird one for making focused window titles privileged information. Anyway, I do think I've created what should be considered basic desktop functionality here, a simple hotkey that mutes or otherwise changes the volume only of the f…
Wayland is approximately correct in this case and Windows and Mac are behind the security curve for bincompat reasons; window titles certainly leak PII. There should be a way to do it, but it is sensitive information.
Okay; is there a way to do it? Can I, the user, decide that I do actually want a program to see titles? Or is it still impossible because 17 years isn't enough to implement utterly trivial APIs that people want?
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Per-display DPI settings fwiw, Xorg already had this, since you can set the DPI for each display through RandR/xrandr. In both X11 and Wayland it's up to the toolkit to actually detect the setting and rasterise accordingly. Wayland actually went backwards in this respect by using "integer scales" (eg, 1, 2, 3) instead of fine-grained DPIs (eg, 96, 192, 288), so using a scale of 1.5 would result in downscale blur (t…
> As far as I know Qt was the only toolkit to actually do this automatically, but that's not X11's fault. Well if three independent programs have to coordinate to make it work, then I would state that it do not support it at all.
Is that any different from Wayland? I'm not opposed to declaring that Wayland doesn't support mixed DPI, but it is a funny conclusion
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
>There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing. You realize that's worse, right? And to be clearer: core Wayland protocol does not have countless ways. It has zero. Instead of a single protocol with the strong X11 reference X server the wayland compositors pick and choose between libinput, or libei, or libportal with the InputCapture PR, xdg-desktop-portal with the InputCapture interface, some I've probably missed,…
The point of the protocol spec being minimal is that it enables a wide variety of implementations, something it definitely succeeded at. I still don't know how people twist this obvious success into a failure.
That wide variety of implementations is a big part of the problem!
Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
The point of the protocol spec being minimal is that it enables a wide variety of implementations, something it definitely succeeded at. I still don't know how people twist this obvious success into a failure.
Xorg fans reverse all the normal Open Source logic. Imagine we were talking about web browsers… There should only be one! No security makes all my extensions work!
I mean, at least with web browsers they usually converge on a common spec eventually, and most of the time you just have a bit stupid repetition in your CSS for a bit. Wayland compositors seem to be actively against this kind of process.