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Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

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Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#71

Post by Qwertious »

nixosbestos wrote: post #62
vidarh wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use any old hardware, and I have argued for a new X server following almost exactly the steps this project outlines.

Good news. The devs of x11 agree and made a replacement called... Way... Oops

"The devs of x11" is a wide category, considering how many X11 devs weren't even born when X11 was first written. Plenty of X11 devs objected to Wayland and tried to patch X11, but when half the devs decide they want to write a replacement and put the original into maintenance-mode, there's not much you can do.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#73

Post by reppap »

ccakes wrote: post #13

This is a great project! I like and use Wayland but the portal protocols and extension mechanism does leave a lot to be desired. Wayland is still quite a way behind Windows and macOS in terms of what productivity users need An X11 rewrite with some security baked in is an awesome approach. Will be watching!

I don't really understand what is supposedly missing in Wayland for productivity users? At work I have been using gnome with the wayland backend for years at this point and I can't really figure out anything that's missing.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#75

Post by grim_io »

7bit wrote: post #67
redeeman wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS, windows and macos cant even do proper window managing for a start, and then it just goes downwards from there on.. You can perhaps install various weird third party things, but it does not come with it by default. If you took people who absolutely never tried any computing, and gave them macos, windows, and for example Plasma, they would NOT consider windows or macos to be ready for the desktop. If you go 15 year…

15 years back people were given Windows macOS and Linux and people voted which OS were ready for the Desktop and which were not. The only BS is your inflammatory contribution to this topic.

The average user only cares what they can run on the desktop. Linux did not have as much choice back then.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#76

Post by grim_io »

iamnothere wrote: post #34

This is the kind of initiative I’d prefer to see from X preservationists. Great job, I hope it succeeds. I prefer Wayland, but there’s still a place in the world for X; it just needs new dev teams to shoulder the burden.

I disagree. The choices in the Linux ecosystem lead to unnecessary fragmentation and development/packaging nightmares.

I say let X11 die, bury it, and never let it rise again.

Then we can all focus on making just one display server as good as possible.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#77

Post by II2II »

Arch-TK wrote: post #68
MangoToupe wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't use a Mac, but have you ever used Windows? I mean, maybe you have, but if you are not fussy then at worst MacOS is quirky and Windows and Linux are identical and merely have different icons. If you pay a little bit of attention you will notice that on linux things seem more flexible and intuitive. If you are very finnicky, there is nothing that comes close to X11 window managers when it comes to window manage…

Windows allows you to launch applications from a menu or via search. You can switch between windows with a mouse or keyboard shortcuts. Windows can either be floating, arranged in pseudo-tiled layers, or full screen. KDE can pretty much do the same under Wayland. Ditto for Gnome under Wayland, albeit to a lesser degree. That covers the bases for most people.

X11 window managers were a mixed bag. While there were a few standouts, most of the variation was in the degree to which they could be configured and how they were configured. There may be fewer compositors for Wayland because of the difficulty in developing them, but the ones that do exist do standout.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#78

Post by bigyabai »

vidarh wrote: post #65
nixosbestos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good news. The devs of x11 agree and made a replacement called... Way... Oops

Yeah, no, the X11 devs made pretty much all the wrong tradeoffs for me.

I wonder why Valve disagrees.

Re: Phoenix: A modern X server written from scratch in Zig

#79

Post by superkuh »

nixosbestos wrote: post #61
superkuh wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who absolutely have to have X11 like myself usually have reasons. It sounds like currently a lot of those reasons for using X11 would prevent using this X server. Like reliable non-fragmented and widely supported screenreader protocol. Or the ability to do keyboard and mouse sharing. >Applications will be isolated from each other by default and can only interact with other applications either through a GUI…

Accessibility? Sure. Everything else? Nah, I'm sorry. There are countless ways to do remoting with Wayland. There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing.

>There are countless ways to do kb+mouse sharing.

You realize that's worse, right? And to be clearer: core Wayland protocol does not have countless ways. It has zero.

Instead of a single protocol with the strong X11 reference X server the wayland compositors pick and choose between libinput, or libei, or libportal with the InputCapture PR, xdg-desktop-portal with the InputCapture interface, some I've probably missed, or maybe you have nothing at all (weston). It's a gamble if your choice of desktop environment and it's wayland compositor's non-core wayland protocols will match up with those the developer for $software chose. On X11 linux everything that works somewhere works everywhere. With the various waylands if you stay within your desktop's ecosystem you'll probably not notice, but go beyond it and you will.

Each wayland desktop pretty much runs it's own compositor with it's own set of third party libs because the wayland core protocol spec is very minimal. I would say incomplete. ref: https://wayland.app/protocols/

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