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How America's universities became debt factories

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Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#381

Post by bradleyjg »

tway_GdBRwW wrote: post #48
mchusma wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But…the whole point is that it is NOT a market. If student debt is dischargeable and the government guarantee is removed or dramatically reduced, pretty much all problems are “solved”. Universities will have to start focusing on ROI. Universities that provide a poor ROI will shut down. Universities will need to reduce costs for traditional coursework, cut courses with poor returns, add courses with higher returns. Th…

> Universities will have to start focusing on ROI. In Europe, they have a simpler system. Education is paid for from taxes. If a student does well, they pay for it via taxes. If they don't, then they aren't crippled by debt. The problem with the ROI approach is it still places too much burden on the student, and, well, life happens. Say you major in comp sci (or some other high-paying field) but shortly after graduat…

It’s not much better for the taxpayers to be lighting money on fire. Also, the students still pay for it in the most precious currency there is—-time.

Credentialism is pernicious regardless.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#382

Post by confidantlake »

saagarjha wrote: post #321
adityamwagh wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see a problem here. Why are English majors in Management positions? With LLMs, I don't see a value on an English degree anymore. So I personally believe it's just a money sink at this point. I don't believe art can be taught in universities as a degree program. Universities should only be for domains that have tangible value.

LLMs are the exact antithesis of what an English degree teaches you: how to communicate effectively and with context, and to understand nuance in what other people say. LLMs make things that sound good but have no real depth to them.

My university english was class was more about writing an essay on what the different colors in the Great Gatsby meant. Evidently this was true across many colleges since it was trivially easy to go on sparknotes, get the answer to that exact prompt, and get an easy A.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#383

Post by DiscourseFan »

slaw3 wrote: post #360
DiscourseFan wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't think about things from the perspective of someone who actually owns or starts a business, you think about things as someone who is an employee and wants to promote skills that help others get employed: accountant, engineer. Something great about engineers and accountants is that they don't ask too many questions, because many have bad social skills: many of them would never, on their own, be able to run a…

English major eh?

god no

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#384

Post by saagarjha »

confidantlake wrote: post #382
saagarjha wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLMs are the exact antithesis of what an English degree teaches you: how to communicate effectively and with context, and to understand nuance in what other people say. LLMs make things that sound good but have no real depth to them.

My university english was class was more about writing an essay on what the different colors in the Great Gatsby meant. Evidently this was true across many colleges since it was trivially easy to go on sparknotes, get the answer to that exact prompt, and get an easy A.

My university computer science classes included professors who thought that "vim was what the kids used now" and that the best way to teach operating systems was to give a lecture on how compiler authors break your code with optimizations. Maybe this is an indictment of their teaching and not the entire field?

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#385

Post by bluefirebrand »

cheese_van wrote: post #327
labcomputer wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only because doctors collude to limit the number of available residency places. I programmers were smart, they would: 1. Lobby the government to prohibit anyone from practicing programming without a license. 2. Limit the number of licenses granted each year

Available residency slots are dictated by the funding made available through the Medicare program and ultimately Congress.

> ultimately Congress

Who is successfully lobbied by organizations of doctors

Congress doesn't make decisions in a vacuum

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#386

Post by qazxcvbnmlp »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #298
BJones12 wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the U.S. actually has is a group of people intent on keeping their doctor wages high by limiting supply through regulation and bottleneck creation.

As a med school dropout (best decision of my life), were I to "go back" to early college: I would have instead pursued a BSN (which my college offered!), to set myself up into eventually becoming a nurse practitioner. That way, if I decided to not complete graduate school, I'd still have an applicable role/job within medicine. Were I to have graduated that program, I also would have been able to practice much earlier…

> the dumbest smart guy they know

When you’re smart enough to understand the consequences the of your “dumb decisions” and have the EQ to navigate the aftermath.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#387

Post by DiscourseFan »

lapcat wrote: post #341
DiscourseFan wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's not generally true. I attended a state university, and the department simply didn't have the funding to pay for its graduate students. I mean, maybe? I know a number of state schools, certainly not all of them, but plenty that can afford paid spots for PhD students in the humanities that are certainly enough for someone to support themselves on. It doesn't pay as well, nearly as well, as jobs that humanities…

Some departments have money, and some don't. Simple as that. I find it very odd that people are trying to deny my experience here.

We're wondering if you were perhaps mislead somewhat, because in our experience its quite rare for a department not to have any funded PhDs with stipends.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#388

Post by righthand »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #206
jackdaniel wrote: post #8

I wonder why there's no mention of a free education as an alternative solution to the broken system

Dunno if it's any better. The competition then switches from spending direct financial resources to the university to spending financial resources to out compete other students vying for the same university. In China there's usually 1 seat per 50 candidates for good university spots, and the only thing that matters is your ranking in the entrance exams. It's not exactly uncommon for high school students to be spendin…

But on the other hand it would encourage other universities to build better programs. Who cares if it’s difficult to get into a good university. That’s already true without free tuition. Post-high school education already has marginal gains. Networking is a completely different story but one that isn’t affected by the cost of tuition.

Re: How America's universities became debt factories

#389

Post by schaefer »

chrisweekly wrote: post #103
robertlagrant wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Say you major in comp sci (or some other high-paying field) but shortly after graduation something happens which prevents you from working in the field. Sucks to be you. That's why the article's saying you should be able to declare bankruptcy. > And likewise it sets up universities to, as you say, "cut courses with poor returns." Like for example "teaching", because school teacher pay is crap, so it has a poor ROI.…

> "Teaching is relatively well paid" Compared to what? In the US, teachers are absolutely underpaid relative to their similarly-educated and -skilled peers in other professions.

You forgot to mention teachers in the US are also overworked.
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