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Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#381

Post by 8note »

Terretta wrote: post #355
rezonant wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Apple embraced texting by supporting SMS, then extended it by forcing all the text conversations that they could into their own proprietary infrastructure, and is extinguishing it by using punitive product design to create pressure on communities of people to all use their products so that everything goes over their proprietary network. I don't want an over the top chat app, I just want to text people.

How do you want Apple to tell iPhone users whether their messages to someone are being recorded by that person's telco and made available to other plan holders on that phone plan? How do you want Apple to indicate if this chat participant is costing you money by the message or free? Everyone's concerned about teens. Presumably teens know that T-Mobile and the other carriers give the family plan adults the ability to…

Did you get this before?

All your messages have been recorded by the government, since the government has been collecting all push notifications on iPhones, and iMessage runs over push notifications

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#382

Post by rezonant »

shreyansh_k wrote: post #31

This seems to be Beeper's insincere attempt at dressing up their grievances to appear as if they were in advantage of the [Apple's] customer. Apple has made it clear that they won't bring iMessage to Android. People who choose to invest in Android phones know they won't get access to iMessage. It seems a bit entitled behaviour for someone to feel like Apple should be forced to bring iMessage to Android for any reason…

People use Beeper Mini because the Apple users they text with want them to. There's zero reason for two Android users to talk over iMessage using Beeper Mini. RCS provides nearly all the same benefits. But when the social pressure is for you to buy an iPhone that you don't want, it's sure tempting to just install an app so that Apple friends can stop complaining, and stop cutting you out of group chats.

If no one used iMessage, the value of Beeper Mini is zero. The value is smoothing the interaction with people who assume everyone is using an iPhone, and treat it as an annoyance when they don't. So effectively saying "just buy an iPhone to use iMessage" means "just buy an iPhone so you can talk to your iPhone friends".

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#383

Post by theshackleford »

api wrote: post #144

A lot of people don’t understand the absolutely insane (and totally stupid) power of “blue text” in social settings, especially among teens. “Green text” is social suicide, largely because a lot of reactions and emojis and stuff don’t work. It’s also a status symbol… even though high end Android phones cost about what higher end iPhones cost and refurb iPhones are cheap. The iMessage platform is probably the stronges…

> A lot of people don’t understand the absolutely insane (and totally stupid) power of “blue text” in social settings

In America. The rest of the world doesnt give a shit.

> Break that and the phone market gets competitive again.

See above.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#384

Post by 8note »

hx8 wrote: post #343
makeitdouble wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nor do I want it > Why does everyone care so much? You seem to both care about it, and also wonder why other people care about it ? Otherwise, looking from the sideline it's fascinating seeing Apple fighting this battle that they brought upon themselves and have no chance of winning.

> have no chance of winning I think Apple will almost certainly win on a purely technical game of cat and mouse. I think you need to adjust your definition of winning. Blocking 5% of messages is a 'win' for Apple. I won't use a messaging service with a 95% success rate. I won't migrate from iMessage to Beeper. I will submit, Apple would have liked a more decisive victory.

Apple wins when you aren't allowed to message somebody using beeper, rather than you switching to beeper from iMessage

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#385

Post by 8note »

jauntywundrkind wrote: post #367
unstatusthequo wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple owns the delivery mechanism. I don’t believe that a third party using their ecosystem will last long. Nor do I want it. There are plenty of cross-platform things out there. Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp. Why does everyone care so much? Google can paint their Android robot blue. Then maybe all this silliness will end?

> Why does everyone care so much? Happy to explain. First thought, why do you care so much? > Nor do I want it. Why? What about exclusivity makes the world better? Why shouldn't I be able to communicate well with someone using an Apple device? Why should someone using an Apple device not want someone to communicate well with them? Sure there are other systems. But switching costs are so high. Especially with iMessage…

They're using "buying an Apple device" as a spam filter, rather than using democratic means to put good regulations that are anti-spam.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#386

Post by angoragoats »

the_mar wrote: post #342
trws wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most common case I know of for what looks like misdirection is having one contact with multiple iMessage phone numbers, especially if multiple contacts share one or more of them. Real world example, my wife and I each have both a work iPhone and a personal iPhone. If both are listed in a single contact, iOS will “helpfully” merge the iMessages from both on a sender’s device, but not on the receiver’s. It’s very d…

Yeah, that’s how contacts work. What would you like to happen instead?

This is how iMessage works, not contacts, and as a user of the iPhone since its launch in 2007 this is surprisingly unexpected to me. I would expect each separate email/phone number to have its own conversation.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#387

Post by rezonant »

DeIlliad wrote: post #339
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems a bit entitled behaviour What's entitled behavior is big tech thinking it can dictate how and where we use technology and services. Why should we be roped into serving Apple's interests and ignoring own own? Beeper can pursue their own interests while benefiting users, that's hardly a negative. I'm sure if Ford dictated how and where you drove your car you'd be outraged, but we should kowtow to the likes o…

> I'm sure if Ford dictated how and where you drove your car you'd be outraged, but we should kowtow to the likes of Apple? I just wouldn't buy a Ford.

What if Ford made it so that their vehicles drive worse when non-Ford vehicles were on the road, and then when confronted about it told all of their customers that they should convince their neighbors to buy a Ford to solve the problem?

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#388

Post by daedalus_j »

function_seven wrote: post #143
josephcsible wrote: post #126

When Ma Bell didn't let people use third-party phones with their service, the government made them change their ways. Why is the government letting Apple get away with the equivalent?

Because Ma Bell was a regulated monopoly, and iMessage is not a monopoly. People routinely use WhatsApp, Signal, Telegram, SMS, FB Messenger, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love that these guys are poking the bear. I wish Apple would do something to let me send high-quality photos and videos to my Android-owning friends via "text". But I don't think the government has a place to force that issue. Plenty of alternatives e…

This. This is what Apple should ACTUALLY get punished for. I don't care that they intentionally lock down their service I wouldn't use it anyway as it's not as secure Signal.

What I DO care about in that they intentionally degrade the experience for communicating outside their garden.

Maybe it'll get better with them finally supporting RCS, but I doubt it. If only they were compelled to let users install an SMS handler app of their choice, then this whole "green bubble" thing would instead be a "geez, why is my iPhone so shitty at handling SMS" thing instead.

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#389

Post by rezonant »

verwalt wrote: post #223
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most companies don't have network effect with lock-in, and especially those we depend to live our everyday lives: I can send money to my buddy who uses a different bank, I can send emails to gmail users from my yahoo account , I can also refuel my car at any station and not be tied to one brand. Imagine being locked in to any of those. There are of course a lot of companies with lock-in out there, but none with such…

The thing is: it is not locking in. At the moment through SMS and it will support RCS next year. And RCS will solve it all. If group chats and high quality media work, people will only complain about the one thing they hate most: The bubbles will still be green. But I am from Europe, we don't care around here and I don't like iMessage that much. Compared to Telegram/Whatsapp, it's slow at loading old messages, has sy…

1. You cannot opt to use SMS on Apple Messages when talking to someone. If they are registered on iMessage, you are forced to use it. This happens transparently, automatically, and for the most part, silently. This helps to create the illusion that Apple devices are just better at texting, and anything else is old and shitty. When in reality, Apple itself only supports their own proprietary messaging system, and an ancient texting protocol that is bad.

2. I hope you are right that RCS will solve everything once Apple implements it, but I don't have confidence it will. The biggest problem is how they handle group chats: If iMessage group chats cannot seamlessly convert into RCS group messages (without duplication or splitting) then it will solve it well enough. This is unlikely to happen unfortunately

Re: Apple partly halts Beeper's iMessage app again, suggesting a long fight ahead

#390

Post by zappb »

rezonant wrote: post #313

I think this is kinda technically a win for Beeper. I would've expected another 100% lockout to be Apple's priority. They were instead only able to block 5%, which sounds like a heuristic being applied, and possibly not even an intentional block of Beeper (in the sense that some anti-spam service may be identifying some Beeper users). They can certainly escalate with protocol changes, but they still have to contend w…

Priority? Half the company is on vacation right now!
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