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A suicide crisis among veterinarians

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Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#381

Post by yuhaj »

FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145
pc86 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute amount of money is irrelevant, it matters what percentage of a person's disposable income it is. $10k is nothing if you making half a million dollars a year and have $200k in credit with no balance, because your disposable income is probably $400-450k/yr. $200 is a ruinous amount of money if you make minimum wage and take the bus to work because your disposable income is very likely negative.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

Unclear to me why this is being downvoted.

Caring for a pet has a cost. The obvious cost is its nutrition, but its health costs must be accounted for as well in the decision to acquire a pet. No matter if you pay a lot for the pet or get it for free, now you have full responsibility for this life. It lives in your captivity, so it's your responsibility to ensure it's being cared for. This is not nature, it can't just live on its own and take care of itself as it would do in nature. It's essentially your prisoner, even if it's rare to see anybody understand that, so you need to provide to its needs. Including health needs. And that incurs a cost. Not _if_ it's needed, it's _when_ it's needed. If you can't "swing" that, then your decision to own a pet was an unbelievably irresponsible one.

The hate shouldn't go towards the vet charging that money for treatment, but towards this irresponsible pet-owner-who-shouldn't-be-one. It's irresponsible mainly towards the pet, but even towards the vet, as the original article demonstrates quite well.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#382

Post by s1artibartfast »

NegativeK wrote: post #358
ndriscoll wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you think everyone should have to make that choice? And that e.g. 4 years for an undergraduate degree isn't enough to become proficient in treating cats (at least for the stuff that's worth treating)?

This thread has become casually dismissive and insulting to the actual work that vets do. Techs (for states that require technician certification, it's a two year degree) do a lot of the work with pets. There's often more than one technician per doctor. That reduces costs. Doctors are still needed because, unsurprisingly, cases can have a lot of nuance that requires significant training to see.

Doctors are not need or wanted by everyone. I would go to an unlicensed vet for cheaper 10/10 times.

For the routine tasks, eg flea medication or bloodwork, a vet isn't helpful. For difficult tasks like surgery, a vet is too expensive.

I'd rather use a quack in every case.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#383

Post by yuhaj »

InSteady wrote: post #254
FrankoDelMar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, well if someone can't swing $200 they probably shouldn't own a pet.

That's an extremely easy thing to say from a place of privilege, and of course there is some truth to it. On the other hand, how many chronically broke and miserable people out there are only hanging on for love of a pet (perhaps the only consistent source of love and meaning in their adult or entire lives)? I'll bet its a lot. But fuck them, they're poor so I guess they should either tough it out alone or die. Sorry…

Who are you proposing should carry the cost then? Society?

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#384

Post by Firmwarrior »

hotpotamus wrote: post #333
Firmwarrior wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, this thread is a mess There are a lot of people on this very site making 500k+ pre-tax. You're going to be taking home 300ish after taxes in that case, and it's not entirely unreasonable to "only" have 150ish for savings/investments/disposable income after your housing and living costs are taken out of that If someone has $12k+ to spend per month and won't spend $10k to save their pet's life, they're an asshole…

I agree that people complaining about the higher tax brackets are oblivious at best, but I'll add that there's no income test to post here. I feel like I do OK (especially given that I have a job that doesn't require the sale of my soul), but it's far from 500K lol.

You should go get that money, dude. Life's too short to waste it all working

Pick a FAANG you don't feel too bad about, hit the LeetCode hard for a few months, then go work there for 5 years. You can save up $750k+, which is enough to leave Silicon Valley and eke out a barebones retirement somewhere in the real world (~$30k/year at a 4% safe withdrawal rate)

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#385

Post by s1artibartfast »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #298
ang_cire wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me myself? Absolutely not. But yes, labor should have some means to be controlled for price, so that people cannot be underpaid or overpaid (as many are).

What is the formula for determining underpaid and overpaid?

The formula is what the master says you get paid.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#386

Post by crmd »

oooyay wrote: post #116
candybar wrote: post #24

We can talk about other negative aspects of being a vet, but the primary factor is that they know how: > But that reality of the job can also colour the way veterinarians view human lives – including their own – and for those already experiencing suicidal ideation, it can provide a simple justification: death is preferable to suffering. In a 2021 survey by pharmaceutical company Merck, 12.5% of the veterinarians surv…

I was lucky enough to own a house next to the vet clinic that ended up being my first dogs final veterinarian. Her sickness was very gradual; a boil grew on her neck and started aspirating blood, she became anemic, and somewhat lethargic. I supplemented her diet as the vet walked me through everything I could possibly do and was willing to afford. She gave me her number to text when weird things happened with the cav…

The worst day of my life was a few years ago when I had to put down my greyhound. I will never forget opening the door to the examination room, beside myself in grief bawling my eyes out, and stepping into the waiting room full of horrified people. And then going up to the desk to pay and trying to keep my shit together. I felt so sad and vulnerable it was just awful.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#387

Post by s1artibartfast »

ericbarrett wrote: post #31
Dig1t wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and then pressured the owner give the pup up when they couldn't afford that My wife is a vet and I hear about this often. From the vet's perspective, if the owner gives up the puppy then they don't have to put the puppy down. Putting down a puppy is heart-wrenching. You can't give out free medical care, she regularly gives as many discounts as she's allowed to give away, even some she's not supposed to, especially f…

> You can't give out free medical care Is this asserting a legal or professional requirement? Or rather a "rule of business"?

It is a rule for f business. If vets operated on a 'pay if you want basis' they would all go out of business overnight - tragedy of the commons and all that.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#388

Post by pengaru »

mozman wrote: post #216
Exuma wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite cats has a bad tumor and a 3 month expected life span. I found out a few days ago. I’m shattered and the thought of having to be in the room or not is just super depressing. I’ve never lost a pet before or even someone very close to me. I’m scared for how bad it’s going to hurt Part of me (most of me) wants to be there to feel the pain in the deepest way and not bitch out. To be there for the last…

Never let your friend die alone.

We all die alone.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#389

Post by s1artibartfast »

meristohm wrote: post #123
Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

When I volunteered to walk dogs for a shelter I learned they offered training and support to deal with compassion fatigue. I appreciated that. My spouse and I had our dog euthanized last year because we did the calculations/justifications and the costs and risks of surgery (likely cancer and organ failure, per the ultrasound) didn't justify keeping our family member alive for perhaps a few more months. The experience…

I'm interested in your thoughts on this:

>The experience changed my perspective about pet ownership/stewardship in general: unless I really need an animal companion or a working animal (e.g. herding), I will never own another pet. I find it a luxury I can do without. I've had three dogs die in my lap now, and that's enough.

I understand not wanting to put yourself through the pain of loss, and have felt that too. Sometimes I don't want a pet because I feel the good times aren't worth the pain of parting. However, you went on to call it a luxury, which confused me. Is that because you will have to pay for the luxury, or because the animal will?

I've never had a pet I thought had a bad life, and it sounds like you were a good owner, so I don't get what the downside is.

Re: A suicide crisis among veterinarians

#390

Post by s1artibartfast »

anvil-on-my-toe wrote: post #283
Fomite wrote: post #4

I work in a veterinary school, and it's remarkable to see how worn down veterinarians are compared to my colleagues in "people medicine" (and my comparison group are infectious disease folks - they're not exactly a cheerful group). To be honest, at this point, between how hard it is to get into vet school, the debt load, and how you're signing up for crushing compassion fatigue your whole life, and a career of hoping…

Imagine if they were compensated much more and therefore could take on a lighter case load. It's such a sad reality how the people who do important jobs in society are squeezed to the point of breaking, while so much wealth is hoarded so by few.

Imagine if vet care was twice as expensive.
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