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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#381

Post by slily »

Timon3 wrote: post #334
slily wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also suggests that up to >20 billion mammals are killed by those cats each year. Quick Google search says that there are fewer than 60 million domestic pet cats in the US, and about the same number of feral cats. So on average domestic cats kill up to >150 mammals a day? And since not all of them are allowed outdoors, those supposed killer outdoor cats would practically kill an animal every few seconds. Looking at…

> It also suggests that up to >20 billion mammals are killed by those cats each year. Quick Google search says that there are fewer than 60 million domestic pet cats in the US, and about the same number of feral cats. So on average domestic cats kill up to >150 mammals a day? Sorry, but I'm a bit confused by your maths. 20 billion mammals / 60 million cats = 333.33 animals per cat per year, or around 0.91 animals per…

You're right, I got the scale wrong, my bad. I'll blame the late hour ;)

It's still too high for pet cats (>1 mammal killed a week supposedly based on the average estimate and the same overestimation of 200 million cats, indoor included) but might make more sense if you consider that ferals have a disproportionate impact. I know people want an easy solution that absolves them from blame but it certainly doesn't seem to justify regurgitating this paper ad nauseam and demonizing people letting their pets outside. Overall I doubt that cats move the needle outside of urban areas with high feral cat populations that area already poor habitats for birds.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#382

Post by jmartrican »

bmitc wrote: post #114
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

You say individuals cannot solve this, then go on to show how the problem is with individuals turning their yards into grass wastelands. Well if its individuals causing the problem, wouldn't it mean that individuals can solve it? Seems like your comment is contradicting itself.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#383

Post by blueprint »

bmitc wrote: post #114
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

I completely sympathize with you. Seriously. But I'm not sure the cause is simply narcissism - to my eyes the real root cause is abject ignorance. If they were to realize, like you, they would be unable to behave the way they do

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#384

Post by blueprint »

jmartrican wrote: post #382
bmitc wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Individuals cannot solve this. I leave trees up, dead or alive. I plant native plants. I remove invasive species. I only keep invasive bushes if they house birds. I don't spray for insects except around the base of my house, I don't kill off chipmunks, voles, squirrels, rabbits, etc. How can this compete with the dozens of neighbors in a half-mile radius that have removed in excess of hundreds of trees, big ones like…

You say individuals cannot solve this, then go on to show how the problem is with individuals turning their yards into grass wastelands. Well if its individuals causing the problem, wouldn't it mean that individuals can solve it? Seems like your comment is contradicting itself.

no, they are referring to how difficult it is to awaken or change individuals.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#385

Post by 2023throwawayy »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #144
d0mine wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If individuals are responsible for just 1% of the issues then even if we eliminate them "bottom-up" completely, we are still left with 99% of issues that should be fixed at another level. For example, consider what would save more water: 10 million people stopping showering completely or one corporation stopping production of water-intensive crops in a desert.

What if politicians do not have the political support to stop the one corporation because 9.99 million people like to consume the water intensive crops grown in the desert?

Typically these water intensive crops are not even consumed by people!

Much of it is alfalfa which gets exported to foreign cattle farms.

We can very much stop raising these water intensive crops in the desert and affect exactly 0 people’s access to food.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#386

Post by Timon3 »

slily wrote: post #381
Timon3 wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also suggests that up to >20 billion mammals are killed by those cats each year. Quick Google search says that there are fewer than 60 million domestic pet cats in the US, and about the same number of feral cats. So on average domestic cats kill up to >150 mammals a day? Sorry, but I'm a bit confused by your maths. 20 billion mammals / 60 million cats = 333.33 animals per cat per year, or around 0.91 animals per…

You're right, I got the scale wrong, my bad. I'll blame the late hour ;) It's still too high for pet cats (>1 mammal killed a week supposedly based on the average estimate and the same overestimation of 200 million cats, indoor included) but might make more sense if you consider that ferals have a disproportionate impact. I know people want an easy solution that absolves them from blame but it certainly doesn't seem…

> It's still obviously too high for pet cats (>1 mammal killed a week supposedly based on the average estimate and the same overestimation of 200 million cats, indoor included) but might make more sense if you consider that ferals have a disproportionate impact.

I don't know why it's obvious to you that >1 mammal/week is too high for pet cats. I've seen cats bring rodent "gifts" every 2-3 days, and I'm reasonably sure that those were not all their kills.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#389

Post by dylan604 »

Thorrez wrote: post #270
dylan604 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I never have to mow, to > I mow it with a reel mower once a week. Maybe you mean you don't use a 2-stroke engine to mow as the point you were making, but if not, what the huh? There's evangelizing, and then there's just being the crazy guy on the corner making stuff up that sounds like evangelizing. You're leaning towards the latter with these kinds of non-ambiguous contradictory statements.

Was the comment edited? I don't see a comment saying "I never have to mow".

Yes, they secretly edited their comment without acknowledging the fact

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#390

Post by sgu999 »

zerodensity wrote: post #343
bmitc wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The planet will be fine. It's humankind that's at stake. This is oft repeated, but it fails short of anything meaningful. The planet, as in a rock floating around in space, will be fine, yes. But what about the untold amount of species of plants and animals that are suffering and will continue to suffer in our wake?

They will adapt or die and something will replace them. Diversity will go down for a while and then back up again. It's almost impossible to sterilize Earth and as long as something lives on it will eventually flourish again. It will never be the same but something else will flourish.

Isn't it part of the question of whether life existed on Mars? If it did and got wiped out, it would mean that something else doesn't always flourish.
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