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What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

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Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#381

Post by jvm___ »

bena wrote: post #153
jvm___ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

She probably sees it differently than you do. Because when she wants socialization or interaction with you, she gets it.

"S does what she wants and J deals with the consequences" is one of my common sayings - and you're right, me saying that makes no sense to her.

We have differing levels of desire to do things with other people. When we're in a group setting, she's an extrovert - but it drains her. At home she's always been happy with a book, puzzle, or now, doing sudoku or a paint-by-number app on her phone. I find the paint by number app maddening - it'll take a picture of a parrot and subdivide it into thousands of squares. You pick a shade of green, track down and touch all the squares that are that color - and then pick another color - track down and touch all those squares.... She's done hundreds of these and the end result is just a picture on her phone. I suspect autism, but she's super verbal and outgoing which I think masks it.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#382

Post by jvm___ »

throwaway834290 wrote: post #202
lm28469 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but then again why would your marry and commit to a "2/10 friend" who doesn't share anything with you ? I know a couple who have been together for close to 20 years, they love being together, talking together, going out together, &c. and they're just thinking about getting married now, and they're only doing it to simplify some paperwork for something unrelated Marriage isn't a checkbox, it's an option if you fi…

In most cases it doesn't start out that way. Either the relationship feels stronger than it really is because you haven't had many relationships in the past, or the relationship drifts apart over time as people grow, or some of both. In my case I thought we had a lot of shared interests, but after a few years into the marriage my wife had decided that she really liked the idea of those things more than the reality, o…

Are you you me?

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#383

Post by jvm___ »

paulddraper wrote: post #269
jvm___ wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't always happen though. I feel the most lonely when I'm alone with my wife. We can only have a back and forth conversation on topics that interest her, or the day to day of the house/kids, anything outside those things is just never discussed or is a one-way conversation that just dies. I was friendless and grew up with the same 15 boys until the end of highschool, never fit in. Married the first girl who…

> realizing that being married to a 2/10 friend is very lonely Piece of advice: One (or both) of you will significantly change your personality and interests, or you will split. Figure out which option you prefer.

How about a $800 mortgage on a $1 million house and $2,500/month buys you a one bedroom basement apartment 45 minutes away from where your kids and ex-wife live. Or both of you sell and split the house and now live in an apartment building in different areas of town instead of in the single family home beside the park where your kids grew up....

It's lonely, but financially and logistically splitting up is unaffordable.

So. Option 3. Stay and regret it 'til my dying day.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#384

Post by nemo44x »

emodendroket wrote: post #358
nemo44x wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that's a conundrum to be sure. It sort of feels logical that if you weren't successful at making friends during the prime years for that (youth, young adulthood) then there's not much reason to believe you'll have more success in the more difficult years. For example, I sort of maintain 2 friend tiers. Tier 1 friends are the "friends for life" I've made along the way. We all maintain a chatter and we may not se…

> I think joining an organization is your best bet. Getting involved in something and becoming an active member in it. You need something that forms a common bond with other people looking for that sort of thing. This is a great way to make friends (well, sometimes. Not always) but I think most of them are going to be "type 2" friends in your schema. You're probably right, not that many people are looking for new, de…

> You can't just unilaterally decide you're going to orient your life around your friends if your friends aren't on the same page.

And that's the rub. It's really difficult to find "bro's for life" that plan on being that way for most people, for a variety of reasons, will move out of that phase. I believe it's because we hang with a pack when we are in our mate selection phase of life and after that occurs, people have different ambitions for their life. Hangin with friends all the time is generally very different at that point.

> To be fair I don't think I was "unsuccessful" at making friends when I was younger

Indeed, there's many reasons someone may not form lasting bonds with friends in their youth and it's not necessarily because they were not good at it.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#385

Post by emodendroket »

forty wrote: post #367
emodendroket wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case let’s consider “marriage” a stand-in for “committed, long-term romantic relationship between two people” since that’s really what’s being compared throughout the discussion.

Still, I don't have a very hard time imagining living alone (even though I'm in what we have just decided to consider "marriage" and we have kids), that seems a perfectly fine life to me, which would have also a center, which marriage would not be, even with this definition. Even in my situation, I would argue that the kids are more in the center than our relationship, as our parent-kids relationship is inalienable a…

Yes, but notice you have to imagine yourself single for this other reality to make sense.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#386

Post by TENACIOUSANT »

jvm___ wrote: post #380
hansc wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like what Steven Covey writes: "Love is a verb". I find that both my wife and myself, and myself and my kids get closer by doing things together that we all enjoy. This ranges from trying out a new restaurant in town, to going to a museum or themepark we all enjoy, to going on holidays. What I am trying to say is that experiencing things together may help you bond more and experience pleasant feelings together.

That's part of our struggle. We had an unexpected gift of $1,000 as an anniversary present from her parents. We have free childcare available anytime we want it. We had the entire summer of 2021 to find and go do something together that we could both enjoy. We didn't come up with anything. We're compatible roommates, but we have very different languages of play. I like to explore, she prefers to stay home - if you ga…

that sucks man

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#387

Post by kodah »

aeneasmackenzie wrote: post #353
kodah wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I agree that it's dogma within the church, that's why I mentioned the Holy Trinity. The holy trinity wasn't known to Jesus at the time of his life or death. It became apparent that he, the holy spirit, and god were the same post resurrection. That's what separates Jesus from other canonical characters like saints and disciples - he was destined to become one because it was God's manifestation of himself. The ot…

> The holy trinity wasn't known to Jesus at the time of his life or death. … If this was beaten into you the school you went to was not Catholic or even Chalcedonian, which is a low, low bar. This appears to be some form of the heresy of kenoticism and your parents deserve a refund.

A monseigneur was in charge of the school and it was registered with the diocese as a parochial school with a church attached. I assure you that it was Roman Catholic. You can stop questioning that now.

Catholic history, canon, etc were all part of our education. Beatings (corporal punishment) were part of Catholic education going back decades in the states. If you don't recognize this as part of Catholic history you're fooling yourself. What we had was less than corporal punishment, but having erasers tossed at you and being hit with rulers were expectations year over year.

As I said, I may have some details wrong but I'm 90% positive this is what we were taught.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#388

Post by xracy »

nashashmi wrote: post #376
xracy wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, first off there's nothing special about "blood" relationships. It's just the people you grew up around, so you're more partial to those people, because time in = time out. My siblings and I aren't close because we're related. The proof of that is my parents and I aren't close. They rely too much on thinking they don't have to show up for the relationship because "they created/raised me." My siblings, friends an…

Depending on the laws of the state you live in, divorce is not exactly a thing you can pick off a shelf. Sorry that your world is so deeply broken where blood relationships don’t mean anything to you. Family is family and that matters more than friendships. Even if you find greater acceptance in other social circles, family is always going to be different. Joining and leaving relationships isn’t the only kind of rela…

1. Yeah, so? Different people live in different states. That doesn't make my point about divorce less valid. 2. Who said my world is so deeply broken? That feels like an unnecessary assessment to force your worldview to match why my outlook is so different from yours. Frankly it's a little rude. I have meaningful familial bonds. They aren't inherently different from friendships just because they're family. I am closer to my siblings because we all understand that there is nothing more special about our bond than what we have already put into our relationship (which is a lot). I have less of a relationship with my parents because they don't understand this. I live a pretty happy and good life as I see it, partially because I've learned this. 3. Every bond is breakable, it's just that the more you put into it, the harder it is to break (or more extreme the action that would break it).

4. I don't know what you mean by all relationships are a trade, but it's the most similar thing I see to my other assessments except that you have a strange carveout for points 1-3.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#389

Post by xracy »

thomastjeffery wrote: post #362
xracy wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a relationship now, but I spent a vast majority of my life single. And the thing I learned from being single, was how to be okay with myself and love myself in spite of the world thinking I was "broken" for being alone. I feel strongly that this independence has fostered a confidence and understanding in all of my relationships that makes me a better person. And I feel this way because I see people all the tim…

I feel like I'm living in the other side of that coin. I have a great relationship with my self. I'm not enough to fulfill all of my needs. I'm great at platonic intimacy. I'm super empathetic, and can (and do) get into deeply meaningful friendships very quickly. Sex isn't in this picture. If I honestly wanted to, I have no doubt that I could find a serious committed romantic relationship. I don't want to. I know tha…

Yeah, I'm not saying it's impossible. But I think it's a lot harder to learn to love yourself if you're always depending on external validation.

I have long questioned the "deeply meaningful friendships very quickly" thing.

A while back I set up a model of relationships that's something like a probability cloud. When you first meet someone they have whatever your standard probability cloud is of actions they might take. The only way someone can really hurt you is by acting outside of that probability cloud. As you get to know someone the list of actions that you expect in their probability cloud changes pretty dramatically.

I have a 'friend' who isn't a close friend, but I was friends with both him and his partner. He cheated on his partner (probably, I don't know for sure, but it's sorta moot, and I believe that he did). And I remained friends with both of them, in spite of feeling like this was a really shitty thing for him to do, because at the end of the day it wasn't really outside of what I expected for him. He didn't wrong me, because he consistently acted in the way I expected him to.

That said, I also don't have a deep friendship with him, because at a certain point I realized that it wasn't the kind of friendship I would want with him.

Re: What If Friendship, Not Marriage, Was at the Center of Life?

#390

Post by nashashmi »

xracy wrote: post #388
nashashmi wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on the laws of the state you live in, divorce is not exactly a thing you can pick off a shelf. Sorry that your world is so deeply broken where blood relationships don’t mean anything to you. Family is family and that matters more than friendships. Even if you find greater acceptance in other social circles, family is always going to be different. Joining and leaving relationships isn’t the only kind of rela…

1. Yeah, so? Different people live in different states. That doesn't make my point about divorce less valid. 2. Who said my world is so deeply broken? That feels like an unnecessary assessment to force your worldview to match why my outlook is so different from yours. Frankly it's a little rude. I have meaningful familial bonds. They aren't inherently different from friendships just because they're family. I am close…

You are too young to know any better. And too angry to understand what everyone is saying to you. You make your own world of explanations to feel like everything is ok.
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