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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#381

Post by seanmcdirmid »

refurb wrote: post #312
duxup wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Chinese diaspora I had no idea how wide it is until a family member married someone from Asia and he explained ot me that his family thinks of themselves as ethnically Chinese, although they're totally disconnected from China.

It's actually pretty fascinating if you spend time in SE Asia. Chinese have been immigrating to all the countries for centuries. There are super old communities of Chinese in Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, everywhere in fact. And they are often a distinct community, with their own language (a dialect from where they came from in China). They were often economic migrants, so tend to be seen as a "merchant cla…

When I worked in Beijing, one of my friends was from Fujian. His parents lived on and off in Malaysia, which isn’t very uncommon for people in Fujian. It is alot southern Chinese, mainly Guangdong and Fujian (and maybe Wenzhou) that go abroad. It is much less common in northern China.

Re: Leaving China

#383

Post by seanmcdirmid »

petesergeant wrote: post #363
refurb wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's actually pretty fascinating if you spend time in SE Asia. Chinese have been immigrating to all the countries for centuries. There are super old communities of Chinese in Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, everywhere in fact. And they are often a distinct community, with their own language (a dialect from where they came from in China). They were often economic migrants, so tend to be seen as a "merchant cla…

Thailand is weird[0], in that there's no love lost at all for mainland Chinese or Chinese tourists, but it's very socially important to have a Chinese grandparent or two. [0]: Actually I think this is true of most of South East Asia where the Chinese community doesn't have as distinct a separation as Malaysia and Singapore

Last time I was on koh phi phi someone greeted my Chinese wife in Chinese, which was a new development (english is fairly common, mandarin is also becoming more common). It seems like a lot of the tourists are now mainland Chinese, and the Thai tourist economy at least likes their money.

Bangkok is ethnically a mostly Chinese city, and is also Thailand’s richest region by far.

Re: Leaving China

#384

Post by ninjin »

seszett wrote: post #102
coldtea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Taiwan’s value to the Chinese diaspora can’t be understated—it’s a bastion of a mandarin-speaking democracy. A bastion of democracy which has been a right wing dictatorship from its inception until the 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

The 90s are now thirty years ago, and Taiwan has undisputably been a functioning democracy since then.

It is difficult to get distances in time into my own mind. But for those other than me reading this and having trouble with this mentally. The first democratically elected president in Taiwan in 1996, which was arguably a high point in the democratisation process, is now in 2023 temporally equidistant to the moon landing in 1969 and us in the present.

Re: Leaving China

#385

Post by fortuna86 »

imiric wrote: post #306
solresol wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard this version of events many times, but that's not how I remember it. I remember the only international flights allowed as being the repatriation flights. (e.g. when an overseas government organised for some non-Chinese who were in Wuhan to be able to come home). And presumably the return flights for planes that would otherwise have been stranded in Wuhan. FactCheck matches my memory... https://www.factch…

Those articles are only referring to flights directly from Wuhan (ignoring the fact that neither Wikipedia nor the WHO are credible sources). International flights were still allowed from Beijing and other cities. From a NYT article[1]: > “I was surprised at how lax the whole process was,” said Andrew Wu, 31, who landed at Los Angeles International Airport on a flight from Beijing on March 10. > Sabrina Fitch, 23, fl…

Even so, from late December to 23rd January is a long time to still allow dozens of international flights everyday from Wuhan. Incompetence is ruled out because domestic flights were suspended right away.

Re: Leaving China

#386

Post by fortuna86 »

taw567890 wrote: post #286
imiric wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's entertain the possibility that China wasn't responsible for a lab leak, and that the zoonotic theory is true. Whatever the source, we know that the Wuhan wet market was a super-spreader event, which Chinese authorities concede. Following this, China grounded all domestic flights in January 2020, yet still allowed outbound international flights well into March 2020. Countries were left to ban flights from China…

[flagged]

> It's plausible since there are claims that covid was detected in the US months before covid spread in Wuhan.

Not credible ones. In fact, the only people to bring this up are Chinese state media.

Re: Leaving China

#387

Post by adastra22 »

samus wrote: post #267
adastra22 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what's an expat anyways A white immigrant.

That probably depends on your definition of "white". Polish and other people from Eastern Europe are often viewed as immigrants.

Yes, and these people are often considered non-white by racists.

My point wasn’t about skin color though.

Re: Leaving China

#388

Post by et-al »

killjoywashere wrote: post #357
CMCDragonkai wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is a civilisation masquerading as a nation.

I had no idea how sprawling Chinese diaspora was until I was in Ecuador and a sailor on the boat with me took me to a Chinese restaurant. In Ecuador. Of course there would be a Chinese restaurant in Ecuador, but of course there's also a sailor on my US-flagged ship who's ethnically Chinese and speaks Mandarin. And so we ordered Chinese in Chinese, in a Spanish-speaking country. In 1999.

Speaking of Chinese food in South America, there's also the delicious chifa cuisine folks should try to sample:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chifa

Re: Leaving China

#389

Post by ekabod »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #383
petesergeant wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thailand is weird[0], in that there's no love lost at all for mainland Chinese or Chinese tourists, but it's very socially important to have a Chinese grandparent or two. [0]: Actually I think this is true of most of South East Asia where the Chinese community doesn't have as distinct a separation as Malaysia and Singapore

Last time I was on koh phi phi someone greeted my Chinese wife in Chinese, which was a new development (english is fairly common, mandarin is also becoming more common). It seems like a lot of the tourists are now mainland Chinese, and the Thai tourist economy at least likes their money. Bangkok is ethnically a mostly Chinese city, and is also Thailand’s richest region by far.

>Bangkok is ethnically a mostly Chinese city

Do you have a source for that because that has not been my experience?

Re: Leaving China

#390

Post by petesergeant »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #383
petesergeant wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thailand is weird[0], in that there's no love lost at all for mainland Chinese or Chinese tourists, but it's very socially important to have a Chinese grandparent or two. [0]: Actually I think this is true of most of South East Asia where the Chinese community doesn't have as distinct a separation as Malaysia and Singapore

Last time I was on koh phi phi someone greeted my Chinese wife in Chinese, which was a new development (english is fairly common, mandarin is also becoming more common). It seems like a lot of the tourists are now mainland Chinese, and the Thai tourist economy at least likes their money. Bangkok is ethnically a mostly Chinese city, and is also Thailand’s richest region by far.

Just before Covid, DMK had a dedicated immigration line for Chinese passports; Chinese visitor numbers were huge already and growing until Covid, when they dropped off a cliff, and they haven't yet recovered in the same way that most other tourism has

> and the Thai tourist economy at least likes their money

Yeeees, but the government (regardless of which) has been talking about trying to move to richer tourists since forever, and discouraging large numbers of Russian and Chinese tourists who they think spend less. So yes, lots of Chinese tourists, but if they could wave a magic wand to replace those with Japanese, Korean, and American tourists, they'd do it in a heartbeat

> Bangkok is ethnically a mostly Chinese city

This is untrue, although I've heard (and would believe) that the majority of middle-class Bangkok has some Chinese heritage

> and is also Thailand’s richest region by far

Actually, until Covid's effect on tourism, that crown was held by Phuket, although Phuket also has a high Chinese influence.

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