Live data from Hacker News

Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

xmodtwo.com

381–390 of 1001 posts

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another hard agree. I always get a good laugh when people in queer culture claim to be living a counter culture lifestyle. Meanwhile the US state department is flying the queer flag at its embassies around the world and using it to agitate foreign conservative cultures. I nominate being an unapologetic white male as the counter culture of our current time. Just watch how many downvotes you'll get on any social media…

It's not that it's an unpopular position, it's that the argument is flawed and the point you're trying to make falls flat. First, you lump all of queer culture into one group, a false categorization without which your augment fails. Second, you assert that being in the overwhelmingly dominant racial group, the overwhelmingly dominant sexual orientation and the undeniably dominant gender should somehow be interpreted…

The whole argument is stupid on both sides.

There is no "mainstream" culture anymore to counter. Everyone is living in their own little cultural bubble that they believe to be a counterculture to a non-existent mainstream culture.

The hysterical thing is the OP said what they said exactly because everyone knows someone would respond with your exact rhetorical devices like an automaton or a bot.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BLM is literally on flags, in schools, it’s not counter culture The AP even has it on tests for college credit

I'll believe BLM is mainstream culture when people of color aren't being disproportionately killed by police. Until then, if police forces are upholding a mainstream concept of law and order resulting in said disproportionality, BLM is countercultural. Otherwise, if acknowledging the aims of basically what's a human rights movement via flags and spots on AP tests constitutes inclusion into mainstream culture, then th…

This is like saying being "anti-murder" is countercultural because murders still happen.

Just because something occurs does not mean there is no mainstream opposition.

I would go further and say that the most basic elements of the BLM were never countercultural.

opposition to excessive police force has been mainstream since the 70s-80s.

The only part of BLM that is actually controversial and countercultural is the idea of abolishing the police. As a result, the majority of BLM supporters reject this aspect.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, where I live you are considered to be a freak if you are religious. Announcing that you have joined a religion is like announcing you are trans in Alabama 50 years ago.

Would you have a high likelihood of experiencing physical violence or death for being religious where you live? If not, then this is pointlessly hyperbolic.

No, but you would be discriminated against. Announcing you are religious would be the quickest way to be sidelined on projects and slowly forced out of the company. Announcing that your are LGBTQ is the quickest way to advance in the company and receive accolades. And this is a Fortune 100 company that nearly everyone on the planet has heard of. Where I live, LGBTQ is very much the mainstream and the most acceptable lifestyle.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>BLM >LGBT >counter culture Endlessly supported by literally every news outlet, major tech company, big 5 sports league, F1000, university, and at least half of the political class. You’re not counter to any major institution, lmao. You’re not the resistance

Changing the colour of your logo on a certain date is not really "supporting". Corps gonna corp and if changing the logo and publishing some nice post brings more money, they'll do it. (While donating to Republicans at the same time)

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#385
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

indicator Same with 'The silicon valley'. When something becomes a movie, it's already ending its hype cycle

Oh that's a great example too. Big Bang was more about the hollywood nerd, but Silicon Valley is a great example of peak hollywood hacker. Why is it taking till the 2020's for it to be so obvious though?

We're only two years in bro give it time.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a minority, but if I go into work and announce that I am trans and will now be transitioning and my name is now X, people will fall all over themselves be supportive and congratulating me. It literally happened recently when Chris became Christina at my work. But, if I come in and announce that I have decided to become Catholic or Evangelical or Mormon there will be a lot of awkward silence with maybe some "oka…

You becoming religious doesn't really concern them and isn't very noteworthy. Someone changing their gender identity is pretty surprising and asks that you change how you interact with them.

[flagged]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#387
post #226

I'm pretty sure I've been existing in a number of counter-cultures for the last decade or two. These have been either linked to my identity or physical location, I couldn't have properly experienced them through consuming media on the subject. Certainly all required an active choice and/or lifestyle change on my part. Maybe people mean something else by counter-culture, but here are examples from my life: - Freelanci…

[flagged]

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#388

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

On this topic: part of counterculture used to be the ability to *signal* your identification with the group to other group members. Styles of dress, certain symbols or artifacts have all been commonly used. How does one signal to others their social media rejectionism in the age of social media communication ubiquity?

[deleted]

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#389

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I disagree that "trads" are counter-culture, just looking at the numbers that is pretty ridiculous. But you could consider the more extreme groups counter culture, like alt-right, q-anon, incels, 8-chan or wherever they are now. They are the worst of course, but I think they fit the description.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#390

I’m going to get flamed for this but at this point the closest we’re getting to counter culture is the exact opposite… “Trads”. Young people with super traditional values doing exactly the opposite of most of what you just listed. No one would seriously suggest the trendiest most mainstream supported or glorified lifestyles (van life, queerness, gig work) are counter culture…that IS the culture; there’s very little c…

I think this is ridiculous, LGBTQ is a minority. Trads are part of a waning majority. All evidence points towards LGBTQ always existing but just becoming more open. Trads being Counter Culture? That's the same double speak that gets us Citizens United and Right to Work. Where did these trads get their radically traditional values? From the majority.

>LGBTQ is a minority

I mean yes, physically they are a minority. Culturally, they are incredibly mainstream. There are examples everywhere.

There are tons of big movies and TV shows featuring gay people coming out.

_Every_ company changes their logo during pride month.

Look at the Apple Watch or iPhone, they come preloaded with Pride wallpapers and watch faces, they produce pride bands for the watch, which sell very well.

Disneyland has Gay Days.

Defcon has a massive attached event called Queercon that dwarfs all other subcons.

Googlers who are gay are called Gayglers.

So many famous actors and politicians are openly gay.

Biden literally just did a major interview in the Whitehouse with a TikToker who's only claim to fame was making videos about becoming trans.

I could list SO many more examples of this everywhere in our culture, and these are random things I could think of off the top of my head, but they are decent examples of culture I think.

I don't have a problem with any of this, I think it's great. But there is absolutely no way you can claim that this is not the mainstream now.

It sounds like you consider talking about trads that way to be dangerous, like it might bring them back or something.

Post reply on HN