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Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#381
post #333

I think this is a reason why Leetcode style interviews are popular. They remove at least one type of bias of race - the ability to solve coding problems. If you can solve Online Assessment, Phone Assessment and Onsites, you keep moving on to the next round, regardless of your race or ethnicity. It is a way for companies to claim that there is no bias in hiring.

well, no. First companies usually have separate interview for 'cultural fit'. Second, the thing with discriminations, they can be quite hidden. The 'leetcode style tasks' can be performed very differently. If I as interviewer don't like you, I can do a lot to make sure you don't pass it. Starting from making question harder to understand and end with plain 'strong not hire' for vague reasons even if you did well.

Correct. Seen this exact scenario and opposites.

In the end - many companies aren’t super rigorous about whether your code that was written passes a test suite and compiled correctly.

I’ve known a few (token) people who have said that they were able to just “talk their way out of having to do leetcode” when presented with the problems. In my personal experience - there’s no way to do that at FAANG and crew if you’re not part of a special group. You either solve all problems asked optimally while not being part of a group the person hates or you don’t pass.

It’s no coincidence that certain races consistently give me leetcode hards as I’m not in their specific group. It’s also no coincidence they still give me a no when I solve the problem optimally when others give me a yes. ;)

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#382

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100x this. I told a white SJW colleague that I never felt discriminated by whites, I am a PoC. I was told "You are naive" People take a really small sample set and paint the whole world with a very wide brush

As a white person, I'm so sorry to hear about your internalized racism. /s

In all seriousness though, this is an aspect I really detest about anything related to "diversity". It doesn't really seem like it's actually about helping anyone, but more an opportunity for white people to pat themselves on the back without really doing anything other than policing language. All the people I know who "care" about diversity only started caring when it became part of their job.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#383

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DEI is just rebranding of the struggle for equality, in which the fight against casteism has been raging for decades. This is a very western centric view.

DEI is intersectional praxis, not a “rebranding of the struggle for equality”

And intersectional praxis is, overwhelmingly, an ideology of white people. Most people in the individual groups (Muslims, Hispanics, etc.) are advocating for their own interests. It’s white people that subscribe to a theory that ties these completely different groups together.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#384

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> If someone hires a person based on their color, that's wrong regardless of who's doing it. Let's say a company is set to hire 1,000 employees. For the first 900 hires, they intentionally exclude white people. Should they, then, make up for this intentional exclusion by then prioritizing white people in their hiring? Or should they correct the problem by giving those who were intentionally excluded priority? In othe…

You can't correct racism against Bob be being racist in favor of Carl. Which is one reason why Affirmative Action is bullshit.

Imagine you have two kids, and you only give one of them a cookie.

Should you make up for it, by giving the next cookie to the kid who didn't get one? Of course!

Should you do this even if the other kids kick and scream and say it's "bullshit"? Of course!

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#385

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> hould they, then, make up for this intentional exclusion by then prioritizing white people in their hiring? No. More racism isnt the solution to racism.

Can you explain how correcting a past mistake is racism? Imagine you have two kids, and you only give one of them a cookie. Should you make up for it, by giving the next cookie to the kid who didn't get one? Of course!

> Can you explain how correcting a past mistake is racism?

Because its not correcting a past mistake. But rather make new ones that inevittably are going to lead to even more resentment. And also hurting the ones you are supposedly helping by making them question whether they got in through their abilities or through diversity points. Which can lead to quite a large reduction in their self confidence.

I would call the cookie example irrelevant to this.

Treating someone differently because of their race, no matter if positive or negative, is racism.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#386

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Do you know why this happened?

Religion, especially in public life, has made a big comeback under the current ruling party. This party is also generally considered an upper-caste party. I assume much of it is due to implicit soft support from the ruling establishment.

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#387

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> Most likely they struggled because the legal language in policies was ambiguous on how to handle the situation, therefore opening the room for the manager to pursue action against the company for consequences for their behavior. How? Do you really think their language specified that discrimination could only happen from white people to minorities?

I'm guessing they weren't sure whether caste was a protected class. Discrimination in law revolves around protected classes (race, religion, national origin, age and sex are the "big five" in the US, and subsequent acts and decisions have added sexual orientation/gender identity, familial status, pregnancy, disability, veteran status, and genetic information). If you act on the basis of that, someone can, well, make…

Why is caste not a subset of national origin or race? Do Indians who discriminate on the basis of caste also discriminate against non-Indians of a lower caste, or is it solely confined to other Indians? If not directly a protected class, why would this not clearly be a disparate impact type of case?

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#388

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> Anything not aligned with the breakdown here is just straight up racist hiring practices So, every field and job market has exactly the same distribution as the entire country?

Wouldnt it be nice. Or are you suggesting that some races / genders / etc are better at some things than others?

> Wouldnt it be nice.

This response seems to indicate that you wish it were, which seems like an acknowledgement that it isn't identically distributed. In which case, it seems a bit premature to jump to "straight up racist hiring practices" being the only explanation for disparities between any given field and the country-wide demographics.

> Or are you suggesting that some races / genders / etc are better at some things than others?

No, it seems to be you trying to suggest this. I'm pointing out that there could be alternate explanations besides "straight up racist hiring practices" that could cause any given application pool to deviate from the general population. This could mean anything from small-number statistical sampling fluctuations, to lack of aspirational representation causing a demographic to enter the field, to general structural suppression in society etc etc.

Very few companies are directly in the position to directly influence the development of people who will be in their application pool in several years time.

Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#389
post #344

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The discrimination based on accent is obvious to me but the food surprises me.. what kind of food from that region is looked down upon on the coasts?

It isn’t necessarily the food itself, it’s just that the food marks somebody as lower class. For example, not knowing how to order sushi or use chopsticks. Maybe a better example is not knowing anything about wine. People will think you’re stupid or have bad taste. What would you think of a coworker bringing bologna and ketchup sandwiches to the office?

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Re: Apple becomes first tech giant to explicitly ban caste discrimination

#390

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Most likely they struggled because the legal language in policies was ambiguous on how to handle the situation, therefore opening the room for the manager to pursue action against the company for consequences for their behavior. It would have been dealt with sooner if the employee was white because (assuming they meant white as in western white skinned person) culturally there isn't an equivalent of caste that would…

> Most likely they struggled because the legal language in policies was ambiguous on how to handle the situation, therefore opening the room for the manager to pursue action against the company for consequences for their behavior. How? Do you really think their language specified that discrimination could only happen from white people to minorities?

It's an open legal question for state and federal courts today, so it makes sense companies are struggling with it. The legal language is ambiguous at best, and corporate lawyers/HR exist to mitigate exposure and not take a moral high ground.

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/u-s-civil-r...

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