Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes • Hacker News Board

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#381

Post by scrumbledober » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:38 PM UTC

mrep wrote: post #248

HideousKojima wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't mug me or grope me or blast music on their phone 3 feet away from me though. To be fair occasionally there will be idiot drivers blasting their bass so loud it vibrates nearby cars, but that's far less common than inconsiderate assholes blasting music on their phones on public transit.

Yeah, basically every girl I have ever dated avoids public transit at all cost because of assholes/creeps.

I was thinking something similar. It's easy for me to argue for public transportation as a 6 foot tall man with martial arts training. I still get a little uncomfortable catching a late night bart ride sometimes...

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#382

Post by MontyCarloHall » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:38 PM UTC

namesbc wrote: post #314

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

>This maximum would barely change your time to destination

Yes it would. The drive from LA to San Francisco is about 300 miles on Interstate 5. Much of this highway is completely straight, with excellent visibility through an unpopulated desert. When sparsely trafficked (as it is much of the time), it is safe to drive 80+ MPH on I5 for hours at a time. At 80 MPH, this is a 3 hour 45 minute drive. At your proposed 60 MPH, this would be a 5 hour drive.

>but it would save thousands of lives per year.

How many lives do you think would be saved by capping speeds to 60 MPH on I5? If alcohol or distracted driving are not factors, I would say probably close to zero. As a fun aside, the fatality rate on the unrestricted German Autobahn is about half the fatality rate across all US highways, and is comparable to other similar European countries’ highway fatality rates.

I completely agree about lower speed limits in cities, however, where pedestrian deaths are the main concern. While I don’t think a governor in the car would be practical or safe (what if I’m rushing because of a medical emergency?), automated enforcement would serve the same purpose.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#383

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

Arrath wrote: post #256

WalterBright wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a right to be stupid, even if it results in your death. > I'd assume having a seatbelt on as a driver significantly increases your ability to maintain at least some control of a vehicle in a collision Not a chance. The g forces are tremendous, and you're just along for the ride in a collision. In my major accident, I had a lap belt on, but my arms and legs and torso flung about totally out of my control.

In my own accident, despite being slammed against the driver's door by the impact, I was able to keep my foot stabbed onto the brake pedal throughout the event thanks to the belt keeping me more or less in the driver's seat.

There's no doubt that the belt played a role in reducing your injuries.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#384

Post by hintymad » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

namesbc wrote: post #314

CodeAndCuffs wrote: post #155

I was a cop for several years. I worked hundreds of crashes, and a few fatalities. If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work, we'd cut our fatality rate in half. Most nations' DUI laws consider a 0.05 BAC as illegal. In most US states 0.08 is presumed under the influence, 0.06 - 0.079 is considered no presumption either way, and under .06 is considered not under the infl…

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

What if occasionally you need to accelerate to a higher speed to avoid an accident?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#385

Post by phyzome » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

A potentially larger reason is that we've decided car deaths are acceptable -- perhaps because the alternative implicitly might be some kind of impingement upon personal-car-culture, and that is pre-decided as unacceptable.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#386

Post by akira2501 » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:39 PM UTC

chris_va wrote: post #262

flaque wrote: post #96

There’s an audio version of the same point here: https://podcast.strongtowns.org/e/the-drip-drip-drip-of-traf... A ”best effort” summary of this article: if thousands of people die in once place, it’s one of the great tragedies in American history. However if thousands of people die in thousands different places, it is ignored and considered a fact of life. When a plane or train crashes, we stop everything and redesi…

To play devil's advocate, we already employ hundreds of thousands of "cities, planners, and civil engineers" continuously to battle these distributed deaths.

This person just missed the agency that _actually does this already_. It's not the NTSB, it's NHTSA. There's a database of every fatility that happens in a vehicle on American roadways. You can download it. It's amazing.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/research-data/fatality-analysis-report...

Every fatal accident is documented. Often in incredible detail. I'm annoyed that this is often overlooked. Particularly in this case.

And yes, drivers get blamed a lot, because drivers are most often at fault. Drugs or alcohol and/or speeding are factors in the majority of fatal accidents. This is already known.

For an article that's attempting to so strenuously walk the high road, the omission of these facts is bizarre to me. How serious can they be?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#387

Post by fipar » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

lsh123 wrote: post #344

namesbc wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should have a regulator installed by the manufacturer to limit speed to 20mph on roads with people, and to 60mph on grade separated highways. This maximum would barely change your time to destination, but it would save thousands of lives per year. - 20mph: 90% survival rate - 30mph: 60% survival rate - 40mph: 20% survival rate https://www.betterstreetschicago.org/blog/chicago-speed-came...

Staying home on the couch: 100% survival rate

A sedentary lifestyle will increase the chances of circulatory diseases though, so close to 100% survival rate, but not there :)

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#388

Post by melling » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:40 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #355

admax88qqq wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Something like 80% of fatal crashes involve either alcohol, no seatbelt, or excessive speed This is the crux of the issue on why we as a society ignore car crashes and panic about train/plane crashes. I'd wager it mostly comes down to filtering out things we feel we have control over stressing about those we don't.

I think you are definitely on to something here. For the alcohol and speeding I wonder how many of the fatalities are people other than the person speeding or drunk. I am not even thinking about passengers, but people in other cars, bicyclists or pedestrians.

Nobel Prize winner John Nash, and his wife, both died as backseat passengers when their driver lost control, hit the guardrail, and they were thrown from the car on the way home from the airport.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Forbes_Nash_Jr.#Death

Needless to say we should wear seatbelts even in the backseat of an automobile.

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#389

Post by valeness » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:41 PM UTC

SoftTalker wrote: post #291

greedo wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because your death becomes an externality that others have to pay for.

Cyclists take note.

What are you insinuating precisely?

Re: Why we ignore thousands of daily car crashes

#390

Post by cmckn » Thu, Jul 21, 2022, 9:42 PM UTC

jjcm wrote: post #271

sebazzz wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If cars had a max speed limit of 85 mph, and required the seatbelt to be engaged to work Wait, wearing a seatbelt is not mandatory?

Legally it's required, but I think their point is it should be required by hardware. Right now most new cars just beep at you, but you can still operate them.

Or people just buckle the belt and then sit on top of it. As insane as that is, I've seen plenty of grown ass adults do it. An older person I knew went so far as to find a seatbelt at a junkyard, cut the buckle off, and leave it in the holster permanently.