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Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

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Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#381

Post by iggldiggl »

IncRnd wrote: post #156
thaumasiotes wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'll give you a hint: https://books.google.com/?hl=en >> Search the world's most comprehensive index of full-text books. I mean, the domain resolves, but that doesn't mean the product exists. You can run searches, but you're not allowed to see the results.

Why aren't you allowed to see the results? I search, see the results, and then click on a result to view the applicable contents of a particular book. In the contents that get displayed, the search term I had entered is highlighted.

In some books it'll only show snippets, where

a) sometimes the snippet returned doesn't even contain the search term

b) you'll only get the snippets for the first three results, and that's that.

There might be even cases where the book is indexed, but the publisher has disabled even snippets, but I'm not sure about that. But a very limited snippets-only search instead of a full preview is certainly a thing.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#382

Post by WalterBright »

incompatible wrote: post #187
WalterBright wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a free country. You can form a voluntary collective any time you like.

I doubt that you are free to share copyrighted information, even if you declare yourselves a voluntary collective.

You can contribute to your collective all of your property and intellectual property.

I suggest you contact all like-minded authors and suggest they join your book collective and donate all their intellectual property rights.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#383

Post by WalterBright »

incompatible wrote: post #184
WalterBright wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> libertarian society as long as we have community ownership of the means of production Libertarianism includes the right to own property. Also common ownership of the means of production is an old idea, and has been tried many times. It always results in poverty.

It would be anarchist-communism. Sure, it has been tried, notably in Spain in the 1930s, but it was suppressed by the Marxists and Fascists. I don't think "it always results in poverty" has been reliably established.

You don't need to think about it - just point to one.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#384

Post by WalterBright »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #196
WalterBright wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is a free country. You can form a voluntary collective any time you like.

To be perfectly honest this feels like a knee jerk response that fails to engage with what I am saying. Nowhere did I say I am being prevented from forming a voluntary collective. But obviously if I believe we should form an economy comprised of many collectives then I need to discuss this idea with other people! I literally cannot form a collective by myself. For my part I am working on a career trajectory that will…

There certainly is no shortage of people who believe as you do in collectives. Go ahead and form one with them.

> you want to argue without really thinking about what I am saying

I've thought about it for many decades. I'm not trying to suppress your discussion, ideas, or any efforts you may make towards creating a (voluntary) collective.

Feel free.

BTW, I read somewhere that over 10,000 collectives had been created in the United States. Where are they now? Oh, they all failed.

A famous one was the Summer of Love in San Francisco in the 1960s. It only lasted for a summer. Seattle's Summer of Love a couple years ago lasted a few days before imploding. (Google CHAZ - Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone)

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#385

Post by WalterBright »

notpushkin wrote: post #186
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah hello Walter. I recognize your username as you and I have disagreed on this before. I’m not saying people shouldn’t have the right to own property. But that a good way of organizing society is collective ownership of the means of production. If you are part owner in something with shares and a contract, that obviously still relies on property rights. That is how the stock market works after all. EDIT: I am basical…

Changing norms is a nice idea, but you'll have to lead by example I believe. That said, I think privately- and collectively-owned enterprises can coexist (and compete!) just fine, and in a truly free market we'd see a healthy amount of both.

> in a truly free market we'd see a healthy amount of both

In the US, at least 10,000 collectives have been formed. You can form one any time you like. They're not illegal.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#386

Post by Beldin »

zozbot234 wrote: post #327
Beldin wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> something in the realm of 20 years should be enough. God no. Right now, we'd be getting remakes from every piece of pop-culture that was semi-popular in the 80s-2002 time frame. Not just movies, but TV series, books, theatre, musicals, ... Sure, copyright should be shortened, but I don't begrudge (eg.) a one hit winner making money off their hit decades layer. Life of artist is reasonable, I think. They take a gamb…

> Right now, we'd be getting remakes from every piece of pop-culture that was semi-popular in the 80s-2002 time frame. Not just movies, but TV series, books, theatre, musicals, ... We are getting these things anyway, except that the originals are far less accessible than they should be. Entertainment trends are cyclical.

I meant a remake of Mr. & Mrs Smith; of Twins, of "Stop or my mom will shoot"... basically of everything that turned a profit, however meager. Moreover, those remakes will be oblivious to what made the original a success. E.g., we'd get Dave Chapelle offered a Seinfeld show, much in that style, without a view to why it was (considered) funny back then, nor with tailoring it to Chapelle.

Put differently: we'd be inundated with much worse schlock than we get now.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#387

Post by mdp2021 »

squarefoot wrote: post #358
hansword wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lawsuit has been settled. Gutenberg has been unblocked in Germany since late October. The site was completely blocked for three years, from 2018 on. Now, a total of 19 German language books are blocked, per the "terms of the settlement are confidential." Everything else works. https://cand.pglaf.org/germany/index.html Gutenberg was blocked in Italy in early 2020. I don't know if this block still persists. https:/…

> Gutenberg was blocked in Italy in early 2020. I don't know if this block still persists. afaict, it resolves and loads fine here. Now on mobile tethering via the Iliad (.it) local operator. When I get home I'll also check it on broadband.

I have information that the abysmal filth is still in place: "Sito sotto sequestro".

I wonder how your provider overrides it. Is it too much of a wet dream to think that some operators (behind the DNS) responded to the requests of the vacuously appointed low scum* with disdainful neglect? In terms of "If you really had any credential for existence but some forms of physical expression, we would say that you must be joking - before putting the proof of your vilty in the trash archival it deserves".

*May I remind that they appended the apex of Civilization, Project Gutenberg, to a list of a dozen pirate sites in their "operation". No, really, I cannot find words to label those lowest abysses.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#388

Post by mdp2021 »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #371
olkingcole wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine for a split second an idea of value that doesn't start and end with private profit

I'm a writer. I can imagine it. But the landlord, grocer, car dealer and pretty much everyone else dealing in physical things wants me to pay for what I consume. I'm not independently wealthy. The only reason I can afford to write books is because the publisher pays me. The only reason the publisher can pay me is because people buy the books. I can guarantee you that this type of behavior means I'm writing fewer book…

We do not buy your* books to access them: we buy them with the exact purpose to buy them.

*In general, so quite possibly also yours.

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#389

Post by TaylorAlexander »

criddell wrote: post #369
SequoiaHope wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one would make money off of it. That is the point. There are innumerable things which are worthwhile which are not profitable. The idea that we do not do a world library of free digital copies of every book ever written really highlights the problem with the thinking your comment has demonstrated. The idea that individual pursuits must make a profit to be justified leads to us doing terrible things like: not makin…

Libraries these days also offer movies, music, and some even have games. Should digital versions of all that stuff be free for all as well?

I can't say what we should or shouldn't do. But I think we would be better off if we did that. Notice I said that in order to make this viable we would want to make sure to provide for everyone so that no one's livelihood is threatened. I look at it this way: digital information has value. digital information can be copied for free. therefore we can copy value for free. if we leverage this principle we can generate a whole lot of value for essentially zero cost. this distribution of value would lead to more value creation, as for example children that grow up with access to way more books are probably more likely to produce more valuable art, science, and engineering output of their own.

I think we would be better off if we do this with movies, music, games, and engineering designs like designs for medical equipment, cars, etc. most of the standard economic arguments for intellectual property restrictions are wrong and short sighted, and I have heard them all. I think this concept is well worth exploring both philosophically and in practice

Re: Pirate Library Mirror: Preserving 7TB of books (that are not in Libgen)

#390

Post by [deleted] »

NaturalPhallacy wrote: post #372
jrm4 wrote: post #124

Again, it's just insane to me that we don't even much have a meaningful discussion of: "Hey, wait, literally everyone could have the entire library of Alexandria in their house for a couple hundred bucks per person. Like, all the knowledge ever. Maybe that should be considered the good default of things. At least one in every town that everyone could use, for free, forever, without restriction to ANY of the knowledge…

This is why I'm vehemently against further increasing copyright law, software patents, and treating Imaginary Property as something that can be owned. We finally build the tools to allow the free sharing of information and almost immediately a bunch of rent seeking lawyers lobby congress to make doing that illegal. I've always lived by the rule of "If you put it on the Internet, it's not yours anymore." Because that'…

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