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When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

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Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#381

Post by zamadatix »

dmitriid wrote: post #376
lhecker wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure editing the article would be the proper thing to do at this point. Someone else suggested to edit in 1-2 weeks for possible future readers. I can add back the sentence where I accredit Alacritty for the general, underlying algorithm/idea then, because that's where I heard about it first. There isn't really any other alternative, performant way to implement GPU-accelerated terminals, so I don't think hear…

> I'm not sure editing the article would be the proper thing to do at this point. Someone else suggested to edit in 1-2 weeks for possible future readers. There's nothing improper with adding " Edit : credit to the who suggested the solution. While the solution seems trivial, there are certain technical challenges to overcome". > because that's where I heard about it first. No. That's not where you heard it first. Ot…

> There's nothing improper with adding

The point of the waiting to edit suggestion is to avoid a bunch of reactionary edits during the most heated period. Immediately implementing every edit demanded of you when different people are demanding different edits all at once seems improper to me and waiting a short period seems a level headed approach. It also avoids the look of just trying to cover everything up the quickest way possible instead focusing on well thought out sincere reactions.

> No. That's not where you heard it first. Otherwise you wouldn't have written "this needs doctoral research on performance" in the original issue.

You've attributed the quote to the wrong person, it was not lhecker who said that.

> There's an actual, verifiable screenshot of your reaction to his words. That was not an "again".

There is nothing in lhecker's response that suggests he hadn't heard of the alternative. His comment argued it should all be able to handled in DirectWrite without using the alternative not that the alternative hadn't been thought of.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#382

Post by marcosdumay »

kingcharles wrote: post #350
johnwheeler wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone knows you’re supposed to denote sarcasm with .

Wait! Where's your opening tag? You monster!

It's like those people that open a parenthesis (for a short sentence, and then go 5 paragraphs without bothering to close it!

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#383

Post by trapnii »

phaistra wrote: post #253
KennyBlanken wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's so many blog posts saying look, we're so smart Have you read Casey's twitter feed? The man routinely goes into long twitter thread rants about how stupid everyone else is. His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams.

> rants about how stupid everyone else is. > His favorite target seems to be...drumroll please...large corporation software teams. I missed the part where he is wrong.

the part where "he" is wrong, is the part where he tells everyone that his reference software can be compared to a real terminal. You cannot compare shoes with towels, nor cats with a TV. The tiling renderer "he" wrote as part of the reference software to demo isn't that bad as a product (to some degree), but that piece of software is garbage, as it has zero use. And almost none of the techniques "he" brags about can be applied to a real terminal. I mean, I like being educated. But so far, noone of the internet fanboys "he" has, has so far ever provided a real product out of his reference software. Admitted, some people tried (just look around), but they all failed. I wonder why. Do you know it?

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#384

Post by phendrenad2 »

oofbey wrote: post #271
starburst wrote: post #59

Casey's next stream [1] will probably be very entertaining! Back when the original drama unfold I could very much empathize with his frustration. Let's not forget they told him that what he was suggesting was the work of a PHD when any game developer worth his grain of salt could do that very trivially. [1] https://www.twitch.tv/handmade_hero

Quoted post unavailable.

Casey streams every day, usually with very few viewers. This drama fell into his lap, a perfect package-wrapped gift from the Microsoft team. What you're saying is like accusing NPR of profiting from a war of famine or something.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#385

Post by drumhead »

lelandfe wrote: post #50
10000truths wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also probably would not have responded favorably to that wording – irrespective of if they were correct. Why not? I see nothing wrong with this sort of feedback. It's blunt, but constructive.

If it was your code they were talking about, you may feel differently. Blunt, hyperbolic statements like "massively overcomplicated" can feel like a shot across the bow when someone is talking about code you wrote. Kindness and gentleness go a long way in OSS.

They represent a trillion dollar enterprise, they have to consider how they they interact with their customers, behaving professionally when faced with criticism especially in a public forum shouldnt be something they need to be taught to do. Instead they acted like they were still in Middle school. If something like this happened at a company I worked for their manager would be having a word with them right now.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#386

Post by dogleash »

trapnii wrote: post #378

Quoted post unavailable.

>That speaks more about the community than I want to believe, sadly.

You're the one passive-aggressively chiding me for not rehashing a technical conversation already discussed to death three for four rounds of refterm submissions ago.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#387

Post by zamadatix »

noncoml wrote: post #327
lhecker wrote: post #139

Hi! I'm the person who wrote that blog post. If you have any questions whatsoever, please let me know! English is not my native language and "The solution is trivial" was meant sarcastic. The solution isn't trivial at all, nor is it complete, because solving the corner cases is complex. I'd also like to mention ahead of time that DirectWrite/Direct2D is very fast at drawing western (Latin) text without coloring (>200…

Hi! Are you also the person who wrote the first, insulting, reply?

The names of the commenters may not be highlighted but they are still in the images. If "the first, insulting, reply" refers to "of the screenshots on Twitter" lhecker would be the second to reply.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#388

Post by dmitriid »

zamadatix wrote: post #381
dmitriid wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure editing the article would be the proper thing to do at this point. Someone else suggested to edit in 1-2 weeks for possible future readers. There's nothing improper with adding " Edit : credit to the who suggested the solution. While the solution seems trivial, there are certain technical challenges to overcome". > because that's where I heard about it first. No. That's not where you heard it first. Ot…

> There's nothing improper with adding The point of the waiting to edit suggestion is to avoid a bunch of reactionary edits during the most heated period. Immediately implementing every edit demanded of you when different people are demanding different edits all at once seems improper to me and waiting a short period seems a level headed approach. It also avoids the look of just trying to cover everything up the quic…

> You've attributed the quote to the wrong person, it was not lhecker who said that.

Ah, true. I definitely misattributed this statement. For this I apologize.

> His comment argued it should all be able to handled in DirectWrite without using the alternative not that the alternative hadn't been thought of.

His statement was "it isn't worth it" and "we ready doing it via the framework we're using" to only state, a year later, [1] "We actually took the same approach Casey suggested" while insisting that "it doesn't help much".

If he'd heard about this approach before and seen it in, say, Alacritty, he has a very shitty way of showing it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31285723

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#389

Post by phendrenad2 »

TrueTom wrote: post #362

It's funny that Hacker News went out of it's way to bury this.

On the contrary, I'm surprised that this purely drama-driven non-technical post is surviving at all. I guess it has enough comments to break through the flags.

Re: When I tell the Windows Terminal team something is simple, I am "misguided"

#390

Post by zamadatix »

dmitriid wrote: post #388
zamadatix wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's nothing improper with adding The point of the waiting to edit suggestion is to avoid a bunch of reactionary edits during the most heated period. Immediately implementing every edit demanded of you when different people are demanding different edits all at once seems improper to me and waiting a short period seems a level headed approach. It also avoids the look of just trying to cover everything up the quic…

> You've attributed the quote to the wrong person, it was not lhecker who said that. Ah, true. I definitely misattributed this statement. For this I apologize. > His comment argued it should all be able to handled in DirectWrite without using the alternative not that the alternative hadn't been thought of. His statement was "it isn't worth it" and "we ready doing it via the framework we're using" to only state, a yea…

I'm not sure I'm much of one for being able to untangle interpretations of chunks taken from comments spread over literal years but I think the distinction missing here is previously the WT team thought they could get away with using DirectWrite's built in approach to handle the precise issue. It was never that they didn't know there was an alternative to DirectWrite just they thought DirectWrite had a way to do it that would work just as well. They then found out this wasn't the case, completely backpedaled on which was the right architectural way to achieve the goals, and wrote this blog post about having implemented it the other way. This is what the full blogpost tries to detail the history of.

It might be a good olive branch to extend thanks to cmuratori for trying to push that it was the right architectural choice but it was never about being the source of the idea. In either case it probably is a good idea to credit the other terminals that had already proven the implementation can work prior to all of this even starting though.

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