Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video] • Hacker News Board

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#381

Post by darkerside » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

Joeboy wrote: post #227

karpierz wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Edit: Maybe it's a bad idea to say this out loud, but when you get protagonists who are "just born preternaturally awesome", they're generally female, right? I'm not sure the same trend applies for male protagonists. I think this is a bit of selective memory ala: https://xkcd.com/385/ Did you have particular movies in mind with this? The whole Marvel universe is riddled with male protagonists who are simply better…

Surely the whole point of Watchmen was that superheros aren't better than other people. For the last couple of decades cinema's been reinventing (male) superheroes as "complex characters" with flaws, moral weaknesses and questionable motivations. Like you say, maybe I'm remembering selectively but I think that's less the case for Black Widow, Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman than it is for Iron Man, Superman or Batman.…

Atomic Blonde was a great example of a total badass female character who actually had to earn her ending

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#382

Post by darkerside » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:51 PM UTC

benreesman wrote: post #306

whycome wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I should give the Expanse a second try? .... My biggest issue these days is that there isn't actual development within the world created. Superman falls for Lois lane, not because of some sort of event or circumstance that we experience on screen, but because they're 'supposed to get together'. Or it's also bad when movies rely on a wider generalized context rather than actually developing something within the wo…

I mean this is obviously very subjective, but to my tastes the Expanse is a must watch. Almost everyone I’ve asked bounced off the first few episodes. The Drinker’s review is a pretty good place to get a sense of whether or not it’s your cup of tea. I have at least one or two friends who had to kind of power through the first 4-6 episodes before abruptly becoming fanatics. It grabbed me on episode 4 and pretty much n…

I was intrigued by the first few episodes, but found myself not caring towards the end of season 1. Is this just not for me?

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#383

Post by darkerside » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 2:56 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #221

There are various schools of art criticism that argue that the purpose of art is not to teach morality. I've just noticed in the last few years that the teaching of morality through the arts seems to have come back into vogue, with concomitant disciplining of those that are deemed immoral, but the funny thing with moralizers is the absolute certainty with which they believe that the purpose of art is to teach moralit…

I think the purpose of stories as art is to explore morality, not necessarily to teach it. Find the conflicted decisions people are forced to make in extreme circumstances and follow the result. And in the end, we all learn from that together, so maybe there is teaching after all, but not in a prescriptive way.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#384

Post by psyc » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:06 PM UTC

darkerside wrote: post #382

benreesman wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean this is obviously very subjective, but to my tastes the Expanse is a must watch. Almost everyone I’ve asked bounced off the first few episodes. The Drinker’s review is a pretty good place to get a sense of whether or not it’s your cup of tea. I have at least one or two friends who had to kind of power through the first 4-6 episodes before abruptly becoming fanatics. It grabbed me on episode 4 and pretty much n…

I was intrigued by the first few episodes, but found myself not caring towards the end of season 1. Is this just not for me?

I actually made it through the first 4 or maybe 5 seasons, and was pretty bored and underwhelmed the whole time. I found all of the characters except Amos and Bobbie flat and (unintentionally) off-putting. Unless I'm missing something, the plot and premises are nothing special. I consider myself a big fan of many TV drama series, as well as sci-fi, I just put this one near the bottom of my list. I just don't get what's so interesting about it. For reference, I consider (2000s) Battlestar Galactica to be an astounding masterpiece and among the greatest TV series of any genre, along every dimension you could measure a show by. I guess there really is no accounting for taste.

I've changed my mind before. I initially found Breaking Bad unwatchable, but eventually came around to thinking it's very good.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#385

Post by Strawhorse » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:10 PM UTC

Gatsky wrote: post #337

Strawhorse wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movies (non-documentary) can moot and champion whole ideologies, psychologies, and philosophies, for example Fight Club (nihilism), Logan's Run (progressivism, anti-establishmentism), Lost in Translation (existentialism, contemporary anomie), Magnolia (existentialism, fugue) etc. I suggest you broaden your viewing.

My viewing is pretty broad, I’ve seen these movies except Magnolia. What you are describing is the placing of a movie in a cultural context. This is criticism, not learning on an individual level. For example, take Mulan. I can generate a feminist counter-critique that the new Mulan is in fact better because women are born with special qualities men don’t have, and often are superior when given equal opportunities. T…

I think we were doing well until you brought in some pap like Mulan.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#386

Post by JanneVee » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 3:55 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #378

JanneVee wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just replying to the notion of that the critique has a undertone of fascist feeling. The comment is somehow anchored in that any critique of modern movies is reactionary and does not have any merit of its own. What I'm trying to convey is that there is a difference between critique that is somewhat nostalgic and it would be different if the critique was ideological. I don't find much ideological bias in "the crit…

He literally starts by saying that these modern films are creating "a generation of shit people" and as proof asks you to log into TikTok and flashes up a clip of a young woman. Why is this person 'shit'? I have no idea. Why is this whole generation 'shit'? Especially compared with a slightly older male Youtuber talking about Mulan, which many impartial observers would place in broadly the same class of pointless int…

I never claimed that it was 'wholesome' that is something you filled in. I'm pointing out that the your analysis is flawed that you are trying to pin ideological label on a "scottish alcoholic" and conflating that somehow the youtube algorithm is fueling a 'fascist feeling'. The truth is that all of these algorithm are maximising for engagement and the signal that it is latching onto here isn't fascism it is nostalgia. Is this persona being 'wholesome' and 'kind' in his speech? And the answer is no!

Fascism uses the nostalgic feeling specifically around national mythos and the character of its citizens but it is the nostalgia that comes first and the demogogs latch onto that feeling. And I fail to see how the The Critical Drinker would constitute a fascist demagogue although he is not wholesome in anyway.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#387

Post by ZeroGravitas » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 4:36 PM UTC

JanneVee wrote: post #386

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He literally starts by saying that these modern films are creating "a generation of shit people" and as proof asks you to log into TikTok and flashes up a clip of a young woman. Why is this person 'shit'? I have no idea. Why is this whole generation 'shit'? Especially compared with a slightly older male Youtuber talking about Mulan, which many impartial observers would place in broadly the same class of pointless int…

I never claimed that it was 'wholesome' that is something you filled in. I'm pointing out that the your analysis is flawed that you are trying to pin ideological label on a "scottish alcoholic" and conflating that somehow the youtube algorithm is fueling a 'fascist feeling'. The truth is that all of these algorithm are maximising for engagement and the signal that it is latching onto here isn't fascism it is nostalgi…

It was just a vibe I got from like 5 minutes of video, but here's a comment from someone who has watched more of his stuff:

> Was a sub until recently, kind of got tired of his "woman or POC did bad thing in X" takes. Not a bad reviewer per se, just not for me anymore.

So, yeah.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#388

Post by 30649814 » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 4:53 PM UTC

dionidium wrote: post #248

It's not a coincidence that all the main characters featured in this video are women. The main thing the filmmakers are trying to show is that these are girl-bosses who can do anything men can do (and more) and it's so important to show that with utter, relentless completeness, that they've created characters that are magical, who don't need to overcome anything, characters who matter mostly as individuals, who have…

>this particular approach to featuring women is ham-fisted and risible and probably counterproductive, in the end.

Counterproductive in what way? I agree with you (and the linked video) that the approach is boring. But I also think it's effective.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#389

Post by dmitriid » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 5:58 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #374

dmitriid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original model where 1 big movie would pay for 6 break-even and 4 non-profitable movies :) Too bad we may never return to that.

If you could make 1 big movie that pays out a lot (enough to cover the "duds"), then why not just drop the "duds" and keep making those big movies? the current status quo is a natural evolution of the prior status quo. That's why i think you have to have a new status quo by finding an alternative funding model. I think potential crowd funding is possible - a movie is crowd funded with no expectation of profit from th…

> the current status quo is a natural evolution of the prior status quo.

Indeed, unfortunately.

> I think potential crowd funding is possible - a movie is crowd funded with no expectation of profit from the funders (they only get a ticket/copy of the movie for their backing dollar).

This is a pipe dream. A few amateur movies managed to get funding this way, but that's about as far as you can go. Movies cost a lot. And even if the cast agrees to work for no money, there's still equipment, and sets, and all the people responsible for those, and editing, and music, and about a million other things.

> I don't like a state-sponsored funding model, mainly due to the ability for the state then to manipulate the movie against the artistic vision.

There's also corruption and lack of transparency. France and Russia both subsidise movies heavily, and the results are ... mixed. In Russia award-winning directors and producers are still looking for sponsors to fund their movies because state money goes to some truly awful shit.

Re: Modern movies teach us awful lessons [video]

#390

Post by JanneVee » Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #387

JanneVee wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never claimed that it was 'wholesome' that is something you filled in. I'm pointing out that the your analysis is flawed that you are trying to pin ideological label on a "scottish alcoholic" and conflating that somehow the youtube algorithm is fueling a 'fascist feeling'. The truth is that all of these algorithm are maximising for engagement and the signal that it is latching onto here isn't fascism it is nostalgi…

It was just a vibe I got from like 5 minutes of video, but here's a comment from someone who has watched more of his stuff: > Was a sub until recently, kind of got tired of his "woman or POC did bad thing in X" takes. Not a bad reviewer per se, just not for me anymore. So, yeah.

Yes but my point isn't about this content in particular. My reply was a little facetious.

> Is the Youtube algorithm directing people to make vaguely fascist feeling, "bring back the good old days", 'kids today', 'civilization is doomed' content aimed at young males? Or is that just a natural cycle that repeats throughout history?

The Youtube algorithm only cares about you watching as many videos as possible. You are not watching it optimize for complex ideology like fascism but to the nostalgic feelings. It drives conspiracy rabbit holes like flat-earthers because the algorithm doesn't care that the earth is round it cares that you watch as many minutes as possible so they can continue presenting ads. If you are curious about Modern Monetary Theory it doesn't care that it recommends after a bunch of next videos an anti-semitic conspiracy theory about the Rotschild banker family a straight up neo-nazi. Just so they can keep you watching and getting ads along the line. And you can't teach the algorithm to avoid complex mechanism like how people succumb to conspiracies or fascism... and in some cases both...