The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins • Hacker News Board

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#381

Post by Throwawayaerlei » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:15 AM UTC

jtbayly wrote: post #368

jcrawfordor wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would Fauci have even known? Budget numbers say NIAID clears around $5 billion in grant funding per year and this grant was more at the $100k per year level. Another source shows that NIAID receives around 3,000 grant applications per year and that's just in two of their multiple grant types. It seems most likely to me that the grant was approved and funded by a subject-area committee without Fauci being involved at…

Would Fauci have known that gain of function research was now legal again?! Of course he would. Whether or not to fund that sort of risky research that has gone back and forth in legality is precisely the kind of thing that his job required him to know, isn't it?

Right you are. But you're supposed to run grant proposals past a board which was created as part of the end of the funding moratorium, and it's been alleged this wasn't done, and that was routine for either Fauci's institute or the NIH as a whole.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#382

Post by chitowneats » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:16 AM UTC

knowaveragejoe wrote: post #373

chitowneats wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so bizarre to me to view him in this way. "Trump thinks something; therefore I must be against it". I understand not taking his word for anything. But it's such an important issue. To just dismiss it and not try to investigate it, even at the highest levels of our government and public health bureaucracies, strikes me as negligent at best.

> To just dismiss it and not try to investigate it, even at the highest levels of our government and public health bureaucracies, strikes me as negligent at best. But this is the opposite of what's happened.

Apparently you haven't read the Fauci FOIA emails.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#383

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

mikem170 wrote: post #332

kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

I too am disappointed at how politicized this is. That includes the Vanity Fair article, which was mostly about press coverage, funding, memos, and circumstantial evidence. Here's some good science sources: - Comprehensive reddit post [0] from a virologist (table of contents, also linked as a 34 page pdf), referencing over 150 sources, with several sections going into the details of the genetic evidence, also interes…

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#384

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:17 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #39

bartart wrote: post #2

This is the most shocking article I have ever read in my life. I'd ask everyone to please read it because it is incredible. One thing I did not realize is that US researchers who conducted gain of function research tried to downplay and discredit the possibility of the virus originating from the wuhan lab. There was an anti-lab theory Lancet statement signed by scientists, and "Daszak had not only signed but organize…

The other astonishing things is the sudden about face by the media. I'm glad they allowed themselves the liberty of looking at alternative origins. But... they were SO adamant and complicit in any discussion about alternative theories being shut down under the guise of conspiracy, Trumpism, anti-China, etc. (These are the same people who have no qualms about attributing anything to Russia even if evidence is thin, so…

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#385

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:19 AM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #98

seaman1921 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is terrifying.. who can we even trust then :\ Such exposed dishonesty leads to more and more people completely losing faith in everything that the scientists say and turning into anti-vaccers etc.

You trust Science, not The Science, not the Scientists. You trust the Scientific Method, and nothing else. It took mankind a lot of centuries to get free from the shackle of the gods, let us not replace the pantheon with our science man.

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Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#386

Post by triceratops » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

timelincoln wrote: post #378

triceratops wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perhaps begin by entertaining ideas as possible until proven otherwise You're assuming I didn't already do that. I'm just objecting to the exhortation to "do your own research". I'm not going to do that, because we live in a modern society with labor specialization. > No scientists ever provided conclusive proof the virus didn’t originate in a lab. Where the virus originated from is nice to know for later. But I re…

I understand you’re self interested, so why are you even commenting on this thread? Get back to your ‘life’ for however rewarding that is to you

What you said upthread stood out to me.

> suggesting that lazy people investigate and seek out the truth instead of clinging to dogma that validates their biases

What's more common with the "do your own research" types is seeking out sources of information that validates their biases. And calling everything else "dogma" or "MSM" or whatever.

I know my own field (software) and I'll readily call out BS when I see it. In this field, I can trust my own judgment after doing my own research. I don't care for my doctor's opinion on encryption or network protocols. It's likely to be seriously misinformed or lacking in perspective.

By the same coin, I recognize that I don't have the expertise or a sufficiently strong knowledge base to form a serious opinion on other things just on the basis of "research" i.e. typing some terms into a search engine. That's intellectual humility, not laziness.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#387

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:20 AM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #383

mikem170 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I too am disappointed at how politicized this is. That includes the Vanity Fair article, which was mostly about press coverage, funding, memos, and circumstantial evidence. Here's some good science sources: - Comprehensive reddit post [0] from a virologist (table of contents, also linked as a 34 page pdf), referencing over 150 sources, with several sections going into the details of the genetic evidence, also interes…

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[deleted]

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#388

Post by deugo » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:21 AM UTC

dariusj18 wrote: post #244

It's not that productive to say, but this thread's comments are mostly trash, if you read this comment first, just turn around.

I do think it is. This thread shows clear efforts of an organized group, likely state-sponsored, to disrupt it.

It was funny to see this happen on 4chan, because at first they could not get it right, and were stuck in their Wikipedia editor mode. They kept getting called out for it, or ignored.

They switched to upvoting and commenting unrelated threads to the front page. When 4chan changed their algorithm to combat this blatant manipulation, they ended with an effective weapon: shitposting.

You fill a thread on Covid or GoF research with an incredible amount of shitposts, and other shitposters attacking those shitposts, downvote walls of text to grey. Derail, derail, derail. You end up with a thread that nobody wants to read, and requires sifting through shit to find what you need. Then easier to just listen to the news about what expert Peter Daszak has to say.

Beating 4chan at its own game. 50 cent army is extremely good at shitposting.

And interesting posts are now hidden behind a "Read More", while posts defending zoonosis (imagine coming into a zoonosis theory thread to shitpost about lab-leak theory, hahaha) are on 2-3-4'th place.

It is getting harder and harder to find the facts or reason about what the hell is going on. The brain of society is poisoned to schizophrenia.

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#389

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #342

Gatsky wrote: post #164

Assuming the chance of a lab leak is non-zero, it is worth considering how this will ever end. - If there was any hard evidence actually proving they had SARS-CoV-2 in the lab before the pandemic, it will be long gone. Only an independent full access forensic level investigation would ever find any sign that evidence was destroyed, and that is never going to happen. - It seems extremely unlikely to me that anyone fro…

Evidence could come from communications. Such a large scale coverup would have required quite a lot of exchanges. Even with China being somewhat opaque and inaccessible to foreign intelligence, there could be digital trails.

[deleted]

Re: The lab-leak theory: inside the fight to uncover Covid-19’s origins

#390

Post by ramraj07 » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 4:23 AM UTC

mikem170 wrote: post #332

kaesar14 wrote: post #54

It’s crazy to me how many people on even this forum, a place purportedly of science, continue to dismiss a lab leak origin out of hand citing it as some sort of crackpot theory. The serious questions raised in this article have been around since last April but it’s only now it’s even allowed to talk about them on digital forums. Excellent write up by Vanity Fair.

I too am disappointed at how politicized this is. That includes the Vanity Fair article, which was mostly about press coverage, funding, memos, and circumstantial evidence. Here's some good science sources: - Comprehensive reddit post [0] from a virologist (table of contents, also linked as a 34 page pdf), referencing over 150 sources, with several sections going into the details of the genetic evidence, also interes…

I am going through all the documents you referenced but let me tell you about the reason why I believe that you can’t trust the scientists directly involved in the research: the Reddit posting PhD uses this statement to tell why the lab couldn’t have just leaked a sample they collected (so not engineered just being absolutely sloppy):

“The WIV, and Dr. Zhengli-Li Shi’s lab group, are extremely well-respected in the virology community. As well respected as many US scientists.”

In fact this person does jackshit to methodologically prove that this lab was not run sloppily, just throws pedigree and “trust us we know she’s legit” crap. Let me tell you the majority of scientists anywhere should not be trusted in their ability maintain sterile techniques or keeping their lab secure. You can look at the vials that floated out of Galveston utmb in a flood, or the cdc shipping precontaminated Covid test kits because their techs didn’t use filter tips.

This is not just this PhD, it’s basically 97% of all scientists. Any statement that undermines the image that they don’t know what they are doing is taken personally with great prejudice.

The Reddit resource is great to suggest that no one deliberately engineered or even grew this virus. But it does nothing to disprove that they just leaked a sample they excavated in a cave and brought to the lab. And by combining both and collectively arguing against any malice or stupidity from these researchers they are not doing anyone a favor in trusting them. Also a real scientist would never categorically disregard a hypothesis without incontrovertible proof, which this and every other kiss-ass scientist does defending this wuhan cabal.