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Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

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Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#381

Post by DennisP »

6nf wrote: post #286
rauljordan2020 wrote: post #168

I'm one of the maintainers of one of the implementations of eth2 live today ( https://github.com/prysmaticlabs/prysm ) and can help offer more context on this. Ethereum proof of stake has been live since December 1st and it currently secures over 6 billion USD worth of value https://beaconcha.in/ . Currently, this is a chain that lives in parallel to the proof of work chain we know as Ethereum today. The idea is that…

Question: Will there be a chain split - will we end up with 'ETH classic' and 'ETH proof of stake' after the upgrade or how does it work?

It would be more difficult these days to get much marketcap on the minority chain, now that Ethereum hosts tokens representing a variety of off-chain resources like fiat money and bitcoins. Those things will have to pick one chain whose claims will be honored. Same for some NFT projects. Anything involving data feeds won't necessarily support the minority chain either, though in principle they could.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#382

Post by kubanczyk »

csomar wrote: post #280
_7fvc wrote: post #118

Bitcoin, Ethereum, and cryptocurrency spawn a generation of people who worship Austrian economics. This ETH upgrade is making ETH even more deflationary. People are obsessed with price and want to pump the numbers. These wars are not doing anything to advance adoption and bring freedom to people. Crypto builders are pumping the coins under the banners of freedom and decentralization. The problem with crypto is volati…

> We need also need inflation. Why?

You don't need inflation with gold but you do need inflation to run the economy.

Because no one sane lends money at 0%. Or at -1%, with deflation.

Lack of lending brings investements down.

Lack of investments brings growth down.

The old companies keep grinding old way. The rich pocket money as a super safe way to get even richer. Stagnation.

See: Keynes

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#383

Post by jcfrei »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #47
Sargos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A high price of ETH as an asset creates a higher security level for Ethereum the blockchain. The ecosystem of projects, apps, protocols, organizations, etc on Ethereum is healthier when the blockchain is guaranteed secure and stable for everyone to use. It's a benefit to everyone.

Except people who want to use ETH as a currency, rather than an asset. If we're going to have inflation or deflation, pick inflation; that way, you can actually spend the stuff without FOMO.

I don't think anybody who's informed about crypto economics (especially coin supply) will honestly claim that BTC or ETH should ever be used as a currency rather than a store of value or a utility token.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#385

Post by DennisP »

chizhik-pyzhik wrote: post #23
typest wrote: post #12

I'm not an expert, but if 51% of the existing hashpower doesn't want a change, it sounds less a 51% attack and more like miners voting against something that isn't in their interest. The whole point of blockchains is that the incentives are supposed to be aligned between miners and users. If that isn't the case here, it sounds like a problem.

It is a problem. That's a big reason for moving from proof-of-work to proof-of-stake- to more directly make the _holders_ of Ethereum in charge of the chain. It's a difficult thing to do, though. Hashpower based mining is easier to get going. Proof of stake has issues like the nothing-at-stake problem, where theoretically you could stake-mine on multiple chains: https://ethereum.stackexchange.com/questions/2402/what-…

Nothing-at-stake is a solved problem in Ethereum's PoS.

The basic idea is that stakers' deposits act as security bonds. If a staker commits to two conflicting chains, any other staker can see that they did so, and get rewarded for publishing a proof of that. Then the cheating staker gets their stake destroyed on both chains.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#386

Post by tantaman »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #301
rauljordan2020 wrote: post #168

I'm one of the maintainers of one of the implementations of eth2 live today ( https://github.com/prysmaticlabs/prysm ) and can help offer more context on this. Ethereum proof of stake has been live since December 1st and it currently secures over 6 billion USD worth of value https://beaconcha.in/ . Currently, this is a chain that lives in parallel to the proof of work chain we know as Ethereum today. The idea is that…

How did those 6 Billion USD worth of value move to the beacon chain while it is not connected to the old chain?

you intentionally stake your ETH on the new chain. So 6 billion from individuals and organizations that intentionally "moved" their coins.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#387

Post by jkhdigital »

dylkil wrote: post #364
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difficulty bomb will kill off eth1 Wouldn’t it make sense for miners to switch to a new Ethereum chain without the bomb?

Then they will be on a fork of a fork of a fork (ETC -> ETH -> ETH_POW -> ETH_POW minus Difficulty bomb) who will take this chain seriously

Stuff like this is exactly why I have chosen to allocate 0% of my cryptocurrency investments into Ethereum. Such a cluster

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#388

Post by jkhdigital »

akimball wrote: post #350
xorcist wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> its is the miners agreeing to following a certain version of the consensus algorithm that makes a blockchain do what it does You have cause and effect mixed up. The miners that follow the same consensus rules that the merchants and exchanges do, get paid. The others do not. A majority of miners following incompatible consensus would look like a huge drop off in mining capacity from the end users perspective. Simila…

There aren’t “merchants” in eth, really, there are dapps. Exchanges don’t care about protocols beyond send and receive. Still, I agree with your larger point: The value goes where the dapps go, and many will go to eth2. (But some will move to more stable and sustainable platforms.)

> But some will move to more stable and sustainable platforms.

This is why I refuse to hold ETH... when the financial big boys finally start moving to blockchain rails, they are going to look at ETH and think “WTF is this?” and pass it up for more principled designs like Cardano.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#389

Post by belltaco »

carlob wrote: post #255
belltaco wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the 1% isn't homogenous and a lot of them will want to keep the system working instead of killing the goose that lays the golden egg. The 1% is about 1.5 million people. Good luck getting most of them organized for a certain cause that will result in destruction of wealth mid term at the latest.

The 1% Is 1.5 millions iff the 100% is 150 millions, which is what population exactly?

The people that file tax returns in the US https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/filing-season-statistics-for-we...

I picked that because I didn't think if babies and non-earners were included when calculating the top 1% of highest earners.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#390

Post by d0gbread »

from wrote: post #167
bluecalm wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wanna store value? Buy actual value - that is things that make the wealth. Stocks in major companies, real estate, land in places people want to live in. The concept that buying promises is a good way to store value is a bizarre concept to me.

This has always perplexed me too. There's a nice Buffett quote on this ( https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/letters/2011ltr.pdf ): "Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 tri…

Share this quote with someone in Venezuela with a straight face. Or the countless unbanked that have access to a divisible digital gold but not stocks, bonds, gold, or enough to direct invest.
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