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Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

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Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#31

Why is it a good thing to make ETH deflationary? Don't you want people to spend it?

[removed incorrect post, thanks for the correction]

I think you're confusing deflationary with depreciation.

Deflationary currency means over time, there's less of it, so if the demand stays stable, you'd expect the price to go up.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody remember Eth Classic, etc.?

That "little thing" when they rolled out contracts and pretty much showed how easy it was to manipulate the currency at their whim ...

(This new) code is (the new) law.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#33

> There are a wide variety of benefits to this proposal, such as potentially making Ethereum deflationary Interesting that this is framed as a benefit.

A high price of ETH as an asset creates a higher security level for Ethereum the blockchain. The ecosystem of projects, apps, protocols, organizations, etc on Ethereum is healthier when the blockchain is guaranteed secure and stable for everyone to use. It's a benefit to everyone.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#34
post #12

I'm not an expert, but if 51% of the existing hashpower doesn't want a change, it sounds less a 51% attack and more like miners voting against something that isn't in their interest. The whole point of blockchains is that the incentives are supposed to be aligned between miners and users. If that isn't the case here, it sounds like a problem.

> it sounds less a 51% attack and more like miners voting against something that isn't in their interest We also used to call this situation a potential "fork" (as in, the thing with two prongs) before the word "fork" was somehow redefined to mean "protocol update everyone agrees on, with a linear history without any prongs".

Ethereum developers are hard forking Ethereum, but 51% of the hashpower disagrees and doesn't want to go with the hard fork.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#35
post #12

I'm not an expert, but if 51% of the existing hashpower doesn't want a change, it sounds less a 51% attack and more like miners voting against something that isn't in their interest. The whole point of blockchains is that the incentives are supposed to be aligned between miners and users. If that isn't the case here, it sounds like a problem.

> it sounds less a 51% attack and more like miners voting against something that isn't in their interest We also used to call this situation a potential "fork" (as in, the thing with two prongs) before the word "fork" was somehow redefined to mean "protocol update everyone agrees on, with a linear history without any prongs".

Yup, it's a combination of new people not understanding it and media slander dirtying the word that has caused it to be avoided because it's gained a bad connotation.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#36
I think schisms are healthy, democratic strategies that lead to resiliency over time. It requires interest groups to play their cards, some will succeed independently, some will fail, and often the schism won't last (the groups will reconcile and merge back together). Others see conflict, and label that as "bad," but this just seems like democracy at work. Democracy is messy and looks chaotic to the uninitiated, but all order looks like chaos to the uninitiated.

With that, I don't see blockchain governance as necessarily "decentralized," but anarchistic (non-pejoratively). Anarchistic governance can lead to complex institutions and centralization, the difference between it and traditional central organization is that participation is always completely voluntary. Most people are OK with letting the Ethereum foundation run the show most of the time, and that's totally compatible with decentralization. When people disagree, they typically organize into interest groups to either convince the current guard to consider their interests, or they schism (in this case).

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#37

Why is it a good thing to make ETH deflationary? Don't you want people to spend it?

People are never going to be using ETH as a currency. They would use stablecoins like DAI pegged to USD or a basket of assets.

A high price of ETH as an asset creates a higher security level for Ethereum the blockchain. The ecosystem of projects, apps, protocols, organizations, etc on Ethereum is healthier when the blockchain is guaranteed secure and stable for everyone to use.

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#39
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point Vitalik is one researcher among many. He's taken care to remove himself from the "benevolent dictator" role he had at first. He is very productive though, and the other researchers and devs tend to find his ideas convincing.

"A group of researchers" still doesn't feel like decentralized to me.

You're pulling threads here. There's a lot of people involved. And then they still need to convince wallet developers and miners. And then once there's the move to PoS they'll also need to convince the users and stakers (miners removed from equation).

Re: Vitalik escalates ETH 2.0 merge as miners plan a 51% attack

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "little thing" when they rolled out contracts and pretty much showed how easy it was to manipulate the currency at their whim ...

(This new) code is (the new) law.

Indeed.

  (You can really tell this is the case the minute "contracts" - IRL backed by "law" and all its affordances - actually became backed by -code- within this new paradigm ...
... wherein, incidentally, the VM running the on-chain contract has become the "judge", come to notice.)
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