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Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

bbc.com

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Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#381

Post by Swenrekcah »

Traster wrote: post #378
electronWizard wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China can cause a denial of service attack on a country by remotely bricking all the network infrastructure or even slowing it down to a degree, this would still be economically devastating at the least.

I think there's a difference worth noting between subtle monitoring & coersion vs. a full out act of war. By the time China is trying to denial of service the UK's 5G infrastructure we've got other things to worry about.

But they don't need to dos the whole country, just interfere up to the point of plausible deniability. They could do targeted outages for some UK firm at a stratetic moment or something.

Also in the case of an actual war, it's surely better to not have your entire nations communications under enemy control.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#382

Post by free_rms »

HideousKojima wrote: post #375
free_rms wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you hadn't even heard of that. Or the gwangju massacre in korea. Right? Why is that? How come some things are marketed extensively to the American public but others are never mentioned? (Also, if the goal is to criticize maoist China, I'd go with the cultural revolution instead of the great leap forward)

I had, in fact, heard of the White Terror, and the suppression of the island's indiginous people. I had not heard of the Gwangju Massacre. There are two reasons why they aren't mentioned as much as Mao's atrocities. One is that those countries are our allies, and as a result we are more willing to overlook their faults. And I don't think that's necessarily right, but it's part of human nature to overlook the faults a…

The cultural revolution is interesting. Yet another famine exacerbated by govt screwups is a lot less so.

Like you said, it's all about which side people are on. And I agree on pol pot. The only self-genocide I'm aware of in the record.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#383

Post by remarkEon »

jialutu wrote: post #347
gspr wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The British colonies over the years? Sure. I don't see anyone here defending that in this thread. > Possibly Britain itself as far as the treatment of poor nobodies. Currently? Are you serious? > Look, China's a repressive regime, but: (1.) A bit less so than it's described by Western media, "Western media" is such a large set as to be meaningless. If you mean the mainstream media, please provide an example of two…

> please provide an example of two of where they claim China is more oppressive than it actually is I'll give you one. Pretty much every single mainstream media basically says religion is banned in China. However to my detriment, every time I go back to China to visit my paternal grandma (who is a catholic), I get asked to go to Sunday mass with her. So, where is religion banned in China? Let me know your thoughts ab…

CCP views religion just like any other technology. It can be useful, as long as it furthers the goals of the Party. Once it stops doing that - or becomes a threat - it's dealt with, and severely in the case of Uyhur Muslims[1].

It's also worth noting that the Catholic Church in China is actually a state sanctioned organization that is not in Communion with the Holy See. There exists an underground Catholic Church that is in Communion with Rome, but, for obvious reasons, it's much smaller.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/ch...

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#384

Post by baybal2 »

yorwba wrote: post #373
baybal2 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a tough question: how to marry globalisation with the political realities. Very simple explanation: it's impossible, unless the West can mow the rogue regimes left, and right, and is ready for a war with a nuclear power to do that. > When China was very poor, it didn't really matter, or perhaps the assumption was that China would liberalise more quickly than it has. Expecting a communist party to "liberalise"…

They might be able to take some inspiration from the KMT slowly giving up power in the ROC without being eaten alive by their enemies afterwards.

Not a good example. Have the KMT top brass made it a raison de etre to live off their privileges? No.

KMT is a way different fruit than the CPC.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#385

Post by sudosysgen »

filoleg wrote: post #341
sudosysgen wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The phones have access to the raw data. The towers shouldn't have access to the raw data, because presumably it's encrypted. If it isn't, it's game over anyways. Not really comparable. You could make an argument about metadata, which is much more questionable from the get-go.

I think the parent comment wasn't talking about intercepting traffic and being able to know what your enemy is talking about. The parent comment was talking about being able to take advantage of the situation by making the enemy use your devices and then incapacitating their infrastructure at the perfect moment by activating the killswitch on those devices.

The solution for that isn't to boycott Huawei, it's to have multiple networks with many providers.

A country using Nokia, Ericsson and Huawei is much better protected to such an attack than a company using only Nokia or only Huawei or only Ericsson, or both Nokia and Ericsson but not Huawei.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#386

Post by coliveira »

wyuenho wrote: post #363
rich_sasha wrote: post #38

If this is just Realpolitik/hardware independence, fine, but security..? Any worthwhile Internet traffic should be encrypted in 2020, and if it isn’t, Huawei probably isn’t the most immediate concern. And if it is encrypted, does it really matter who is listening? Comments welcome, I know zilch about telecoms hardware.

National security != information security National security includes things such as the prevention of over-reliance on a foreign supplier working with a foreign subversive government hell-bent on their unfair mercantilist policies. It's economic security they worry about first, which could lead to a whole host of other security issues due to lost of leverage later on.

> prevention of over-reliance on a foreign supplier working with a foreign subversive government hell-bent on their unfair mercantilist policies.

If that was true, no foreign country would be buying from US companies.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#387

Post by filoleg »

sudosysgen wrote: post #385
filoleg wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent comment wasn't talking about intercepting traffic and being able to know what your enemy is talking about. The parent comment was talking about being able to take advantage of the situation by making the enemy use your devices and then incapacitating their infrastructure at the perfect moment by activating the killswitch on those devices.

The solution for that isn't to boycott Huawei, it's to have multiple networks with many providers. A country using Nokia, Ericsson and Huawei is much better protected to such an attack than a company using only Nokia or only Huawei or only Ericsson, or both Nokia and Ericsson but not Huawei.

Sure, I am not arguing one way or another regarding whether this ban is good or not. I am just saying that the cold war analogy had nothing to do with encryption, unlike what the post I am replying to is attempting to imply.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#388

Post by Deathmax »

wyuenho wrote: post #374
benlumen wrote: post #368

Something I don't see many people talking about is how Openreach, the UK's main physical layer broadband provider, uses Huawei kit in the majority of its street cabinets and has done since FTTC VDSL was rolled out a decade ago. 5G is the tip of the iceberg with respect to the UK's communications infrastructure involvement with Huawei.

Worse, Hyperoptic gives everyone a terrible ZTE router lol

At least for the two Hyperoptic installs I've had or seen in the past 2 years have been Tilgin routers (https://hyperoptic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Tilgin-HG2...) instead of ZTE routers.

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#389

Post by wyuenho »

coliveira wrote: post #386
wyuenho wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

National security != information security National security includes things such as the prevention of over-reliance on a foreign supplier working with a foreign subversive government hell-bent on their unfair mercantilist policies. It's economic security they worry about first, which could lead to a whole host of other security issues due to lost of leverage later on.

> prevention of over-reliance on a foreign supplier working with a foreign subversive government hell-bent on their unfair mercantilist policies. If that was true, no foreign country would be buying from US companies.

Why?

Re: Huawei 5G kit must be removed from UK by 2027

#390

Post by wyuenho »

Deathmax wrote: post #388
wyuenho wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse, Hyperoptic gives everyone a terrible ZTE router lol

At least for the two Hyperoptic installs I've had or seen in the past 2 years have been Tilgin routers ( https://hyperoptic.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Tilgin-HG2... ) instead of ZTE routers.

I think they've ran out of them a long time ago. I requested a non-ZTE that support 5Ghz last year. They didn't have any and they said they weren't ordering them anymore. Those Tilgin are probably old stock.
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