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Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

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Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#381
I am surprised after reading a lot of comments here (not all), that I have not seen any discussion of Cognizant and their role. I am no fan of Facebook and I believe that they have significant responsibility here, but the contractor is, imo, the party directly responsible.

These people do not work for Facebook, and we don't know the nature of the contract in play. Are they paying per person, or a lump sum for some capacity at some accuracy rate. If Cognizant automated all of this would it be accepted under the contract?

Anyways, I don't want to shift focus away from Facebook so much as wanting to recognize the contracted call mpanies like Cognizant (which is what the whole article is about btw, with some comments referring to Facebook). Accenture and Cognizant really shouldn't escape the scrutiny just for being overshadowed by a bigger name.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#382

The issue is not as much Cognizant or FB as it is the state of the public. The horrible acts posted online for entertainment by the public is the reason for companies like Cognizant. I hope these posts can forwarded to local law enforcement and the posts used as evidence against the poster.

The article implies strongly that Facebook prefers to focus on the short term task of blocking offensive content and only pays lip service to the long term task of pursuing criminal charges. I'd definitely believe that that is the case, as there's little economic incentive to play the long term game with its uncertain payout if you can just churn through low-wage content moderators instead. Users of Facebook, but mor…

There's also the possibility of passing a law around this issue. It doesn't have to be entirely market forces.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#383
post #3

Just a warning - I found even a short description of some of the videos they had to watch fairly disturbing. I don't think I could do that job for very long - let alone in a badly run, high pressure environment with low wages.

There's a lot of variance between individuals. Given the choice this sounds like an overall better job than working a busy McDonald's drive through (people are assholes when they're hungry) but I'm not the kind of person that's particularly bothered by graphic violence. My opinion of humanity is dark enough to accommodate it. I'm sure many people would prefer McDonald's though. Some of the people interviewed were com…

The fact that these kind of shock videos are even a thing, kind of disproves your point.¹

There are also people who are habituated with cutting into living bodies (surgeons) but the difference is they are highly paid.

It's a bit unfair to equivocate and call this kind of work a good option for some people, when the vast majority of people who are in these jobs probably will be psychologically harmed by it² and are doing it because they have few other options.

It is relegated to an underclass, like all dangerous and undesirable work.

1: Statistically at least. 2: See also: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228141419_A_Slaught...

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#384
post #93

Dipping into whimsical analogies: this is a digital abattoir where the meat = content. Now, as before, no-one wants to see how the sausage gets made. Especially those selling it. Can't kill demand or bear the visceral truth. So instead we'll pretend the seedy underbelly doesn't exist. Paper over dissonance with ethical codes and platitudes. Not new. Just a context shift in production of sustenance for the collective,…

Every web community has to deal with this, some types of communities are more prone to this than others. On HN this obviously works very well, also other 90s style web forums don't suffer these problems but that's probably also because those usually have a very close scope and attract only certain kind of people.

Facebook is really broad, so are also online news magazines which are sometimes full of horrible comments (only text of course). Usenet more or less ceased to exist because of that. So in reality this is not a Facebook problem but an online community problem - it just looks like a FB problem because that's the major online community.

I wonder if this could be solved with a 3rd party Facebook integration/startup :-). Anyway, Facebook also has more problems with that, another one being undesired unsolicited contacts which fall into the same category of not so nice stuff about Facebook. People don't see the meat production but the bad smell is really close which is why many leave.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#385
post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess it's expected in HN that someone would focus on the software engineer pay, but that largely misses the point. I don't think anyone was arguing that the SWE in this case was overpaid. Perhaps there's a case that, in the context of the moderators who make so much less, it can create a wealth inequality that leads to social instability, but I don't thinks there's enough information for that claim. I would argue…

> I guess it's expected in HN that someone would focus on the software engineer pay… This branch of the comments is literally about software engineer pay. See four levels up: "If Facebook could get away with paying engineers $30K/year, no benefits, believe me, they would." To which you replied, "It's potentially shortsighted to have that sort of myopic utility maximizing mindset…" > I would argue that there is a non-…

> But shouldn't we then be advocating for a government/society capable of filling in the gaps?

See my other comment above. There's reasons to believe both the state and the individual have a responsibility in fixing it for both ethical and practical reasons.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#386

This was a valuable article to read. Facebook is enormously valuable. They made something like $15B in net income in the last four quarters. Content moderators are a necessary condition for that profit. If kiddie porn, gore and animal cruelty flooded the network, it would cease to be a destination visited by people that advertisers will pay to reach. And yet, there are two sets of entry-level knowledge workers at Fac…

>This is a guess - can anyone at Facebook speak to whether engineers are aware of the working conditions of moderators, and agitate to improve their lot?

If you go work at Facebook as a engineer chances are you aren't too bothered by ethical questions

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#387

This was a valuable article to read. Facebook is enormously valuable. They made something like $15B in net income in the last four quarters. Content moderators are a necessary condition for that profit. If kiddie porn, gore and animal cruelty flooded the network, it would cease to be a destination visited by people that advertisers will pay to reach. And yet, there are two sets of entry-level knowledge workers at Fac…

It says right in the article that the content moderators have full medical benefits

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#388
Social Media Content Moderation Team Lead

Cognizant Technology Solutions

Tampa, Florida • This is an exempt position, requiring day, evening, weekend, and holiday shifts, as this delivery center is operational 24/7 and 365 days a year.

Cognizant is seeking a team of strong Team Leads to manage a team of social media content moderators for a global social media organization.

The Team Lead will be responsible not only for managing day to day operations of the team, people management, performance management, but also help the client determine gaps in processes, identifying innovative ways to solve problems upstream and scale our operations.

Ideal candidates will be comfortable understanding social media, have an appetite for research and gathering data insights, a high level of comfort working with cross-functional partners, and a strong analytical mindset. Successful team members have a passion for business success, strong attention to detail, analytical problem-solving abilities keeping a high level of team motivation and keen eyes for operational inefficiencies.

Responsibilities: • Provide mentorship, guidance and career development to members of your team • Lead a high-performing team through an exciting transition to build problem solving, critical thinking, analytical and technical capabilities which will enable the department to develop deeper, more scalable solutions • Team management responsibilities for a market team, whilst also serving as a cross-functional and a global liaison in developed areas of expertise • Establish team goals and work with direct reports on strategies for executing, measuring progress and sharing results • Deliver projects involving quantitative analysis, industry research, and strategy development, working directly with global cross-functional teams to problem solve analytical approaches and develop solutions • Identify actionable insights, suggest recommendations, and influence team strategy through effective communication • Advocate for users within their market, partnering with global and cross-functional teams to develop global solutions

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to be left wondering. While I'm not sure these are the videos mentioned, it's not hard to find some just by googling for it. Or maybe don't, I wish I didn't.

I don't doubt you can find all sorts of horrifying video. I feel like I'd have seen media reports of widely-shared videos featuring live, conscious kids being vivisected in order to harvest their organs.

Isn't the point of moderation/censorship to avoid having these videos widely-shared? These videos exist, they are fairly easy to find on specialized websites. Some are fake, but a lot are genuine. Videos showing executions during wars in Chechnya or in the middle east and such.

Re: Facebook moderators break NDAs to expose working conditions

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those require years of education and training.

Content Moderators requires years of education and training? The original poster made two categories: Engineers and Moderators. Engineers? Definitely years of training and education... Moderators? What education is required to say "Does this post break community standards? (Check yes/no)"

>Content Moderators requires years of education and training?

It doesn't, but the potential trauma and psychological damage they might get from this kind of work should put it in the "high risk, high reward" category. I would never do a job like that knowing it could scar me for life unless the rewards were fantastic in that moment. And I believe that most people, knowing what this job entails, would say the same thing.

The way the article puts it, these moderation companies are looking for whoever they can to fill the chairs in order to meet their quotas, offering a seemingly larger paycheck for what they advertise as an easy job. They literally mislead people so they accept this job, and when the hired person finds out what it is really about, they are likely to be dependent on that income and can't leave the job. And as time goes, they get more and more damaged, to the point that the company eventually fires them, and they are left with no money, no psychological help and traumatized for who knows how long.

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