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Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

theguardian.com

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Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#381

Post by Notorious_BLT »

lucb1e wrote: post #363
monkmartinez wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion on this is unpopular, but I will say it anyway; People shouldn't have more kids than they can afford.

I'll go further and say that we should seriously consider getting fewer children, period. We have limited resources here on Earth, and while I could probably support a couple without problems, those resources would be better spent on those who are already here. I'm only 25 so I don't know how I'll feel in 10-20 years, but right now this is part of my consideration when thinking about long-term goals and whether I'd w…

That's the problem with saying "people should have less children". Yes, they should, but the people who will listen are often the people best equipped to raise children. If prosperous, well educated people have less children (who we can assume will end up better educated) and poor people have more (who we can assume will not receive those opportunities), that will only increase the imbalance.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#382

Post by hospes »

triviatise wrote: post #280
tomxor wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, in this case one of the Thai divers died from running out of oxygen... but 12 - 1 is still a win if you want to reduce it to arithmetic.

Except with the money spent they could have saved 50000 kids from dying from easily preventable diarrheal diseases with inexpensive vaccines.

We still can spend money and save 50000 kids, it is not an A OR B problem.

There is plenty of money and resources out there to save all kids dying from easily preventable diarrheal diseases. There is no political will to do that.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#383

Post by dekhn »

the_spacebyte wrote: post #287
compcoffee wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> yes that's the thing you're just a neckbeard who cares shit about others and feels smug about pointing fingers on the internet Not a hint of irony, huh? There it is, the crazy Musk fans going full out ad-hominem, just like they did on the BI journalist. Careful OP, these people are nuts.

Nop, not because of Elon Musk per se. I would have lost my judgment and go "ad-hominem" if it was another person as well. I just hate the argument "He's just helping for PR, while I seat my ass doing nothing" You conveniently cut short my phrase, when quoting, just to push the argument that I'm a Musk fanboy...

So, this is the second time you've said I don't do anything. There is no reason to be rude. My work is in scientific reesarch, and I've worked on projects that made significant improvements to drug discovery, possibly saving millions of lives.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#384

Post by coryfklein »

csomar wrote: post #351
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Define random. The million of poor children are randomly selected too. Coarsely, what happened to these kids could happen to ours. Starvation, less likely. In-group selection is built into our natures, and that is on display here. Practically, saving these kids takes a short burst of effort. Their families will pick up the slack thereafter because they have—on average—the resources to do so. Saving children from hu…

My guess is that Thailand wanted to be on the spotlight. There are kids dying of hunger, disease, sex-enslavement, violence or negligence (car/house accidents). But they are very unlikely to be on the spotlight. We don't want to be humanly. We want to be praised for being humanly.

> My guess is that Thailand wanted to be on the spotlight.

I need to coin a term for this concept, I see it on every Hacker News thread once it reaches a certain size. It is the attribution of the topic to some nefarious intention of a dude in marketing. Once you start noticing it you can't unsee.

Intel fires their CEO? It's a PR stunt.

Startup abandons Europe due to GDPR? PR STUNT!

AlphaZero beats professionals at Dota 2? You guessed it, it's just PR for oligarchy parent Alphabet.

I see this so often now it's becoming humorous. As if some how this being all about PR explains everything. It doesn't explain anything! Although I'm sure Bill over in marketing loves that he has subsumed the historical role of deity in explaining the unknown.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#385

Post by heartbreak »

nickysielicki wrote: post #241
typon wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia is the best website for following: 1. Current events. 2. Sports tournaments. The information entropy level is quite high, with basically no ads, extremely good formatting (relevant tables, charts etc.), and relatively unbiased. This doesn't even mention the benefit of getting simple background information on the subjects with just a simple click (or even a hover these days) It's really a treasure.

I strongly disagree about current events. The Merrick Garland wikipedia page was a mess immediately after he was nominated, and I've just checked and the word "unprecedented" appears 7 times, in spite of the fact that it is by-no-means unprecedented for the senate to not consider a nomination [1]. There are a lot of partisan editors that wish to astroturf for their own political convictions, and because Wikipedia art…

In the time it took you to write out this comment you could have edited the Merrick Garland Wikipedia page to your satisfaction.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#386

Post by los_angeles »

ryanmercer wrote: post #17
thewizardofaus wrote: post #9

Awesome news. But how long until Hollywood capitalizes on this event and makes a movie? "... Based on a true story, starring insert big name actor here ..."

They already are http://www.newsweek.com/hollywood-producers-head-thai-cave-r...

Actual quote from the source article, literally by Michael Scott:

>Pure Flix films managing partner Michael Scott told AAP in Chiang Rai, “I see this as a major Hollywood film with A-list stars”.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#387

Post by kadenshep »

perilunar wrote: post #228
kadenshep wrote: post #136

Thankfully Lord Musk was there to help. Unlike Saman Gunan. In all honesty, please remember and keep repeating Saman Gunan's name. He gave his life for these kids. Musk reused a part of his rocket that his company didn't even build, in a situation where it would never work. It was so obviously a PR stunt it's disgusting. He even personally showed up to the cave site as if he was ever going to actually contribute some…

Elon Musk replied to the BBC report here: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1016684366083190785 Direct quotes from one of the dive team leads: "please keep working on the capsule" and "it is absolutely worth continuing with the development".

So the guy actually in charge of the entire thing is somehow wrong, but Elon personally emailed exactly 1 person in charge of 1 team who said "keep working on it", which definitely justifies the entire surrounding PR bonanza and Musk personally showing up to the dive site to do... what exactly?

It'd odd that Musk's attempts to discredit the guy in charge of the entire of the operation is somehow not worth pointing out, who no doubt had input from multiple teams he was working close with. Musk then proceeded to release 3 messages between Musk and 1 person, specifically picked to continue this PR spree.

To reiterate, the guy in charge of the entire operation said the submarine wasn't going to work with their mission. Musk then proceeds to cherry pick exactly 1 email correspondence between him and 1 other person to invalidate the official's position on the matter (and the fact that the sub was in fact, never used). In Musk's magical bubble (as you can see from the Twitter replies), this is somehow both reasonable and enough to justify his ever continuing pop-sci PR spree.

After a certain point, you need to start questioning why he's always in these PR spats and why nothing substantial ever happens to actually validate Musk. I do not personally understand what level of sheer, unbridled optimism is required to look at what Musk is doing and go "Yeah, that's totally okay and noble!"

To end:

* Musk constantly tweeted/reported on his own team's developments throughout the entire process, even though basically nothing was actually happening.

* The guy in charge of the operation said the vehicle would not be used

* Musk show's up to the dive site for some selfies, talks with people while taking some extra selfies, and then immediately leaves.

* In a true display of ego, Musk proceeds to screenshot 1 email chain between him and 1 other person because he was factually called out on this matter.

* Musk fan boys across the internet praise him for doing all of the above and contributing exactly nothing.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#388

Post by lolc »

csomar wrote: post #355
monkmartinez wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My opinion on this is unpopular, but I will say it anyway; People shouldn't have more kids than they can afford.

> My opinion on this is unpopular, but I will say it anyway; People shouldn't have more kids than they can afford. It's a natural response to the hardship. If the chance that the kid make it is 10%, then make 10 times more kids. That way you have around 100% chance that your lineage makes it through life.

You never have an around 100% chance. You always have less. The chance of at least one out of ten making it if they have 10% chance each is: 1-0.9^10, that's two thirds.

In other words: In a society where 90% of children die and women have 10 births, one third of the mothers will lose all. All assuming the deaths are independent of course.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#389

Post by coryfklein »

nxc18 wrote: post #262
abandonliberty wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet who shows up for the 3.1 million children who die of malnutrition every year? Every 3 minutes we lose more children then were in the cave. We can comprehend 13 people and the struggle against nature, while the scope of world hunger is far too complex and emotionally incomprehensible to mobilize enough people.

I keep coming back to this. How many lives could have been saved it improved with the expense we put into saving 12 people who went caving in monsoon season? Don't get me wrong, I'm glad society found a way to save them, I just wish we took the every day threats to human life more seriously.

I think you're viewing this wrong. This wasn't a one-time $2M spend on saving 12 people, this was cashing in on an insurance policy where citizens of Thailand pay premiums in forms of taxes.

Failing to save these kids is the case you want to think about - that would be sending the message to the public that if your kid gets lost in the mountains we're not going to save them. Sure this particular "insurance claim" (in this impromptu parlance) was an expensive one, but most of the others aren't, and the thing about insurance is that it is there particularly when the costs are catastrophic.

Re: Thailand cave rescue: all 12 boys and coach successfully rescued

#390

Post by cgag »

tyrust wrote: post #364
merpnderp wrote: post #272

I do my part in promoting captialism, which has done more to pull children out of poverty than any other program or charity in the world. Free market reforms in China and India have done just brain blistering amounts of good in reducing human suffering, from child malnutrition, suicide rates, longevity, and access to healthcare.

What does it mean to "promote capitalism"?

Argue against the extremely socialist mainstream thinking in the bubbles I operate in.
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