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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#381

Post by xupybd »

escapetech wrote: post #256
alexandercrohde wrote: post #194

A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it. Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a re…

It's not necessarily about power imbalances - subordinates might express interest in a superior, or a colleague might interest in another colleague, and both situations can be just as problematic as a superior expressing interest in a subordinate. The problem is simply one person deciding to single out another person for any deviation of expected treatment especially when it has no relation to the social context or w…

Inviting a coworker to church is a problem? Can someone elaborate please?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#382

Post by nulldev »

[deleted] wrote: post #115
meowface wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you send just one job application when you're trying to find a new job? No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me. >That assumes that transaction is somehow not mutually beneficial. It is mutually beneficial, but you're probably looking at a 30:1 (or higher) benefit ratio here, in his favor. > In the end, she's the one that has power over h…

[deleted]

> This is probably my last response to you, as you (and quite a few others) seem to use downvotes as a way to disagree with me.

The direct respondent can't downvote you. You were downvoted and flagged by multiple other users.

>> No, but if it's a lucrative job that I really want to work at, then the hiring manager definitely has power over me.

> You redefine what having power over someone means.

If anything, you're the one operating with a non-standard definition of 'power'.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#383

Post by nulldev »

coss wrote: post #259

Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.

I also encourage you to avoid direct eye contact with coworkers. It helps maintain a firm barrier between the professional and personal space. Also, consider adopting the middle-english pronouns 'thou' and 'thee' when referring to colleagues, and if a specific identifier is required you should default to using their mailbox address (e.g. jane.smith or dustin.bieber).

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#384

Post by jrs95 »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #255
jrs95 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't really think of any good ways to do it. The good news is that on a software engineer's salary if you're going to do a lot of drinking alone you can at least buy the good stuff.

How about "Would you be interested in going on a date some time?" And if the answer is "No thanks" the response to that can be "OK, I understand." Have we all become so engrossed with our smartphones 24/7 we've forgotten how to be face-to-face direct with other actual humans?

I've seen someone get fired for doing that. And it was really just that.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#385

Post by briandear »

shams93 wrote: post #293
alexandercrohde wrote: post #194

A lot of people here seem to not understand the power imbalance point, so I'd like to explain it. Imagine you're in these positions: --Being arrested, and an officer makes a romantic advance --On trial, and the judge makes a romantic advance --In therapy, and the therapist makes a romantic advance --At the doctor, and the doctor makes a romantic advance --At the bank, and the banker makes a romantic advance --In a re…

We need to legalize prostitution so that an investor or manager who has these fantasies can play them out with professional help. If we viewed prostitutes as a form of health therapist and gave them professional respect rather than keeping them in the black market a lot of these guys could work out their power issues with a trained sex professional instead of creating these nightmares for innocent women who just want…

A trained sex professional? Are there schools for this sort of thing? How does one get “training?”

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#386

Post by briandear »

daenz wrote: post #24

Is it just me, or is committing public seppuku like this really necessary? If what he did was illegal, he should face prosecution. If he's compelled to apologize and admit his guilt, he should reach out to the people he actually wronged. This kind of public self-flagellation ("I'm such a creep. Please forgive me, world.") feels really over the top, phony, and symbolic.

What he did wasn’t illegal.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#387

Post by briandear »

throwaway055 wrote: post #130
liquidise wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question, maybe one best asked to my female friends: at what point does propositioning someone transition from simply not mutual attraction to sexual harassment? The definition is broad and says making "unwanted sexual advances or obscene remarks". Is there a line drawn between romantic and sexual propositioning? I'm not looking to be intentionally obtuse here, i'm more trying to make sense of the legal nature…

The word "unwanted" is troubling, because it means the alleged victim gets to personally decide whether the act was illegal/punishable or not, based entirely on their own subjective feelings. So I guess, if you're good looking, it's legal, and maybe you end up marrying and having children (as people often do in these situations). If you're not good looking, it's a violation and you should be fired/prosecuted. This de…

What we need is a Tinder for the workplace. This way both sides are protected if one person says no.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#388

Post by johnny22 »

aortega wrote: post #87
chasing wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fun fact: You don't have the right to be creepy or predatory towards women just because alcohol is involved. Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed.

> Women have the right to go out for drinks with coworkers without being sexually harassed. Yes but you have to understand that we humans have a incredible high drive to reproduce, and many successful couples forms in the work environment. I have a child with a coworker. Sexual approaches do happen in those kinds of environments but there are a big difference between approaching someone and sexually harassment. Moder…

"Modern women specially millennials tend to see any kind of approach (specially from unattractive males) as harassment"

You can't just say something like this without backing it up. Anecdotes don't count.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#389

Post by raleighm »

jackmott wrote: post #207
theWatcher37 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it won't be enough, it won't be seen as positive, and like half the comments in this thread show once you're outed as a PC heretic you're a non-entity. Read through the smarmy "he doesn't mean it" comments all over this thread to see what I mean. This culture is toxic in the tech community and needs to stop.

The culture of being being mad at sexual harassment offenders even when they apologize is what is toxic in the tech community. ok

Did folks who flagged this understand it was sarcastic?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#390

Post by collyw »

escapetech wrote: post #379
alexandercrohde wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think dating coworkers is wrong. I think making somebody uncomfortable with clumsy/forceful/persistent advances can be bad though. But let's say you like somebody at work, so you talk to them, and you both enjoy the conversation. Then you eat lunch together at work a few times. Then you invite them to get drinks after work as a group. Then you continue to hang out when the rest of the group has gone home. The…

You personally may think dating coworkers is fine under some circumstances, and so may the other person potentially involved, but others not involved and observing may find it unacceptable under any circumstance. One goal of the workplace is to ensure equal treatment and equal protection to all of its workers under any and all circumstances.

A quick google suggests that nearly 40% of people have dated a co-worker, so to say it is wrong under any circumstances seems a silly.
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