iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch • Hacker News Board

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#381

Post by bschwindHN » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 4:24 PM UTC

antfarm wrote: post #297

bschwindHN wrote: post #138

What's the right way to design an IoT product to not be dependent on a startup's cloud servers? - Allow the app/device to point to a different host (running an open source version of the backend)? - Support LAN connectivity without round-tripping to a third party server? - Allow the user to load their own firmware onto the device? I don't know where the line is for these things, it seems to be a balance of convenienc…

Looks like Garadget have thought of that (at least for the future): The app requires a server component as does any consumer friendly product with mobile access. There is a plan to add the support for server-less mode, though it will require users to configure domain name service and firewall. The main server component is maintained by the Particle and pre-paid for the life of the device. Additionally, unlike many pr…

Well that's better than most IoT projects. The hardware is the special part anyway, so it seems fairly reasonable to have backend servers that are easily replaceable with open source software, or are open source themselves.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#382

Post by problems » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 4:30 PM UTC

jo909 wrote: post #159

throw_this_away wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the sentiment, but why should a hardware company let the user keep the device and their money? Issuing a refund and finding a way to retrieve the device so it can be resold makes much more sense to me. Especially for a small company.... Giving away your product for free to every customer that complains seems like a quick way to go out of business. If you buy a faulty ipad from apple, they'll certainly give you…

Not a 99 dollar retail price device. I'd guess the hardware earned the developer maybe 10, 20 bucks? Loosing one or two less future sale probably makes up for the loss. Understanding that one customers frustration and improving the experience for other new future customers could literally be priceless.

They're probably making way more than $10-20 on that thing - you can buy wifi capable dev boards for $10 out of China. If you're producing in bulk, you can probably build that even cheaper.

The marginal cost to make more units is dirt cheap, I'd be surprised if it's >$20 - the cost to develop the whole system in the first place is the hard part on the technical side of things. Then there's the business side which they just blew pretty bad. Giving the customer the hardware costs them almost nothing - write it off to make the customer happy. As long as you don't have to do that too much, it's perfectly sustainable.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#383

Post by minusSeven » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 4:44 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #352

theprotocol wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the point. The company has no right to deprive a user who paid from receiving the product. You don't get to do a personality test on your customers. Some will be jerks and it's their right. Someone who doesn't recognize that others are under no obligation to like you is dangerous to society.

> You don't get to do a personality test on your customers. Some will be jerks and it's their right. Yes, you do. As a business, you get to decide your customers. Full stop. You do not have a right to purchase a product from a business, and they have the right to refuse you as a customer.

Dunno I feel its the other way round.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#384

Post by obstinate » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 4:48 PM UTC

Veen wrote: post #357

obstinate wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can try enforcing those standards, as this company did. But you may find that doing so causes your business to be economically unviable. That's fine as long as it's your preferred outcome, but if it isn't, you need to suck it up and deal with people who don't treat you how you want to be treated.

I'm convinced that there are enough reasonable, civil people in the world that I don't have to pucker up to kiss the behinds of those who can't behave with a modicum of decorum when their expectations are slightly undermined.

The problem isn't the people you "fire" directly. It's that those other reasonable, civil people might wonder where exactly where you draw the line, and justifiably avoid you based on not knowing. There's enough folks in this category that you really have to be more careful unless your product is truly out-of-the-park stellar and one-of-a-kind.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#385

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:09 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #104

dangrossman wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you feel if you bought a Tesla Model S, then a few weeks later they called you up and said "we don't like your online review of your car, so we're going to disable most of its functionality, but you can return it for a refund". $8000+ in option packages on that car rely on cloud functionality run by Tesla. If you don't -want- a refund, but -want- the car you already paid for that's sitting in your driveway,…

Yes, great analogy. But Amazon can nuke accounts and disable "purchased" books, video, etc, at will. So there's a gray area. I think what Amazon does ought to be illegal, but hey.

If companies want to keep control of media and devices in this way we need a law to make them behave. Disabling a device without due notice should receive a hefty fine and compensation to the user.

Preventing or no longer supporting access to media should be similar and require an alternative format be made available, so Amazon can block access to an ebook or movie but must provide a download instead.

That would balance alittle the current disparity of power the companies hold IMO.

Recently NowTV/Roku unlawfully accessed my set-top box and disabled an app, the main reason for having the device, because they don't like it. They claim it's illegal but it's available from the curated app-store if I buy the more expensive device from the same manufacturer (or indeed a device from many other manufacturers).

I can't afford a lawsuit and we don't have group actions in the UK. Net effect a company cripples a device because they don't like how it is being used, and commit unauthorised access of a computer system in the process (currently illegal, but only individuals are being prosecuted for it).

We need protection from such companies.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#386

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

jimktrains2 wrote: post #3

I like how they chastise Martin for poor impulse control and then go for the nuclear option of disabling someone's account over a single review. "They think my service doesn't work now, well let me show them what not working is really like!" The irony is amusing, except for Martin. Also, I'd like to take this time to note that this is another reason that it's important to have control over your own devices.

Manipulating reviews is unlawful in Europe ... Would love to see a prosecution in this sort of situation.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#387

Post by Gracana » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:16 PM UTC

yellowapple wrote: post #373

gingerbread-man wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They don't get proper investment for a reason. That's not always true. Ergodox-ez.com has an awesome product (a keyboard) they funded through indiegogo. Not to mention basically every 3d printer company, even the VC funded ones. Crowdfunding (and pre-ordering in general) helps hardware startups raise the cash they need to manufacture a batch of product. Without it, they'd have to raise the full cost of the batch in…

Speaking of the keyboard world, there's also the extreme of the crowdfunding concept: sites like Massdrop that emphasize crowdfunding individual batches of a product (almost always one-off) rather than aiming for eventual mass-production and general availability. It apparently seems to be working for some people, but as someone who doesn't follow every last Massdrop deal, it just seems more annoying than useful as a…

It's definitely better for customers if you have a constant supply of products to sell, but for niche hobbyist groups (like mechanical keyboard enthusiasts), it's the only way to get some stuff made. I like it. I was able to get a keyboard PCB fairly inexpensively, which is a big deal because getting one-offs of PCBs that size costs $$$.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#388

Post by jalibster » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:25 PM UTC

Unless this unprofessional business owner not only refunds the money but establishes in writing no harm has befallen the owner as a result of using his device, he's probably got a lawsuit coming. The fact of the case are public knowledge now. No amount of abuse by customer legally or ethically justifies removing the primary feature of the device that was purchased. Money must be refunded before the account can be closed. The behavior is not only unprofessional and incredibly poor judgement as well as emotional control. This company has a an open-shut case against them from what I know of the law here. It also sets a nasty precedent that would possible compel to throw the book at the business owner to discourage similar behavior from other IoT companies. Really bad call, Garadget. IoT's are proving dangerous enough without company owners doing things like this.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#389

Post by jalibster » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

Unless this unprofessional business owner not only refunds the money but establishes in writing no harm has befallen the owner as a result of using his device, he's probably got a lawsuit coming. The fact of the case are public knowledge now. No amount of abuse by customer legally or ethically justifies removing the primary feature of the device that was purchased. Money must be refunded before the account can be closed. The behavior is not only unprofessional and incredibly poor judgement as well as emotional control. This company has a an open-shut case against them from what I know of the law here. It also sets a nasty precedent that would possible compel to throw the book at the business owner to discourage similar behavior from other IoT companies. Really bad call, Garadget. IoT's are proving dangerous enough without company owners doing things like this.

Re: iPhone App will not stay open - just flashes when trying to launch

#390

Post by Hydraulix989 » Tue, Apr 04, 2017, 5:28 PM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #338

barking wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? If I went into a store to complain and my first words were "what kind of shit have I bought here?", then I don't think I'd have any cause for complaint if I were forcibly ejected and told to come back when I'd learnt how to behave myself. Same should apply online.

If the store then came to your house and confiscated your product, you absolutely WOULD have the right to complain. The store owner could go to jail, because that is called theft. Screwing over customers has a cost. This story went viral. And now this business is going to receive hundreds of negative reviews.

The product wasn't confiscated though, only the service was cancelled, and a refund was offered for returning the product. This is the main point a lot of people are missing here.

As it stands, this is how ANY court of law would see it as well.