Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 464 posts

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#381

Post by mozumder »

zdmc wrote: post #376
leakybit wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It's your constitutional right as a US citizen to tell any Law Enforcement agent to go fuck themselves. 1. They need a warrant to search your phone if you don't voluntary give them access. 2. Even if they have a warrant, you can plead 5th and just not give them the pin. The American way is all about not trusting the government, believing in conspiracy theories, and stocking up on ammo.

Nope. I was flagged for "secondary inspection" at the southern border. (Mind you, I am as white as you can get). Long story, short. I acted like a bit of an entitled jerk, and was surrounded by 15 CBP agents, had my head slammed on a metal table, cuffed, phone and wallet taken, and then I was taken to a windowless room (with a couple of older Hispanic guys who I remember thinking could be "disappeared" fairly easily…

You are correct that you pretty much have no rights at the border.

The moment you step outside the US, you can be killed by US a drone strike, or the CPB agent can simply shoot you if they wish.

It's a broken hole in our system that needs to change, but don't expect any change for at least 2-4 years.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#382

Post by sfifs »

skriticos2 wrote: post #207
Jonnax wrote: post #10

Their point about how other countries will take the US's stance as a cue is somewhat scary. If you try and cross any border it will be relinquishing access to all accounts. I'm assuming email also comes along with 'social media', since communication is by its definition social. So how do you protect yourself? I think just going with "Don't have any social media" isn't a good answer because the relationship that child…

Within Europe (ps: as a European citizen) you can go anywhere with a personal identification card (no passport) and there are no border controls (when walking or driving). There isn't even a border, just a sign: welcome to $country (ps: and maybe local driving instructions). Say what you will about the EU, but this has been a great achievement. I can go through airport security between two EU countries and security w…

Really that applies if you are a "White EU Citizen". People of other ethnic origin are quite routinely stopped and questioned in the Schengen Zone at transportation points.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#383

Post by cema »

mozumder wrote: post #381
zdmc wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. I was flagged for "secondary inspection" at the southern border. (Mind you, I am as white as you can get). Long story, short. I acted like a bit of an entitled jerk, and was surrounded by 15 CBP agents, had my head slammed on a metal table, cuffed, phone and wallet taken, and then I was taken to a windowless room (with a couple of older Hispanic guys who I remember thinking could be "disappeared" fairly easily…

You are correct that you pretty much have no rights at the border. The moment you step outside the US, you can be killed by US a drone strike, or the CPB agent can simply shoot you if they wish. It's a broken hole in our system that needs to change, but don't expect any change for at least 2-4 years.

2-4 years is extremely optimistic, but I think this is an issue that (finally) has drawn more attention than usual, so there is a chance there will be some work towards its resolution.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#384

Post by euyyn »

blubb-fish wrote: post #247
swalsh wrote: post #108

Another terrifying part of this, is due to the nature of networks, when one of your "friends" becomes compromised, your private message do too. This goes way past national security, and 7 countries. I have former coworkers from Syria, Iran, and Iraq. They're great people, and are great programmers. I friended them on Facebook many years ago, and now when one of them is caught at a border it's not just their private m…

first of all stop using FB for communication

Anyone should be free to use whatever service is most convenient to them for communication.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#385

Post by fny »

wheelerwj wrote: post #365
fny wrote: post #330

All the people suggesting a "duress mode" would solve this issue need to wake up. For as long as it's not illegal to force people to open up their phones at the border, you are not under duress. In fact, the government could even warp the situation to where you'd be commiting perjury by showing a fake screen. Unfortunately, we can't solve this problem through technology: we need to convert the broader public and figh…

while i disagree on your point sbout duress, you are absolutely correct about this being a legislative issue, not a technology one.

Legally, duress is defined as "any unlawful threat or coercion used... to induce another to act [or not act] in a manner [they] otherwise would not [or would]".

Key word there is unlawful. Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has upheld that searching and seizing your device at the border without suspicion or warrant is lawful if done for the public interest. [0] (Insane, no?)

Now want to become a purjure? Just sign a form declaring you're giving agents access, and then dump them on a fake screen.

[0]: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2016/12/law-enforcement-uses-b...

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#386

Post by emmelaich »

waqf wrote: post #143
Havoc wrote: post #27

Note to self - bring burner phone for dodgy countries...like the US.

A few years ago, for foreign travel, one used to buy a new SIM card at one's destination. These days, I'm thinking I might just bring my SIM and buy a new phone at my destination.

I did exactly that on a recent trip to the USA.

First day, I went to an AT&T shop and bought a phone + 8gb data for month for cash. No ID or credit card required.

I bought this not for anything nefarious, but just so I had a local number for hotel bookings plus a wifi hotspot if needed.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#387

Post by [deleted] »

vegardx wrote: post #318
greensoap wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup... there is even a case on this exact point. TLDR; drug smuggler crossed the board and went through customs. He didn't get searched. Then as he was leaving the customs area, on the U.S. side of customs, the police performed a warrant-less search. Prosecutor argued the search was legal because he was in the process of entering the country and citizens don't have a right against search upon entry to the U.S. The co…

Are you sure about this? Usually you can be stopped and searched quite far inland as long as they can prove that you recently crossed the border. This is often used to take smugglers.

[deleted]

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#388

Post by kentbrew »

Some tweets from @Pinboard feel like they want to go here:

This is a small point but important: don’t specify people are ‘US-born’; either you’re a US citizen or you’re not.

Emphasizing that someone was born in the US as a kind of super-citizenship plays into the hands of people you don’t want to be helping.

The proper term for someone born abroad who doesn’t speak English and has a brand-new US passport is: “American”

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#389

Post by waqf »

Spooky23 wrote: post #377
gcb0 wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you point to an example?

In the linked ACLU post, the 2nd-5th bullets are a great example. The second bullet specifically enumerates the government position on border searches. The 4th and 5th bullets detail what the Border Patrol can do away from the immediate vicinity of the border. But the 3rd bullet, which is key to the notion of the 100 mile "constitution free zone", is more mysterious. It states that Customs has "broad—though not limit…

I don't understand your point. The fourth and fifth bullet points are intended precisely to make the third bullet point concrete.

Technically they should probably have been formatted as subbullets of the third point, but other than that I don't see anything wrong.

Also, your para "Many readers … The facts are very different." — not apparently backed up by any details — is exactly the kind of weasel wording you decry. In fact, I think I'm being trolled here.

Re: A US-born NASA scientist was detained at the border until he unlocked his phone

#390

Post by KirinDave »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #243
popey456963 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Donald Trump is undoubtedly homophobic, I think he's just pointing out that for the country to be voting for him, to an extent a proportion of them must agree. And I disagree about you saying the EU just wishes to become the United States of Europe. In almost no sense does anyone give up their "sovereignty" by joining the EU. Every country still creates it's own laws, governs how it wishes to and has full control ove…

Damnit...I hate to look like I'm defending Trump, but he was also the only Republican to let an open homosexual speak on the convention stage (Thiel). He's self-serving and contradictory (see Pence), but it's not nearly as open and shut as suggested. Do you have any specific reasons he's homophobic?

> Do you have any specific reasons he's homophobic?

Yes, actually. He's said very homophobic things and done some very transphobic things.

1. He's on record saying "marriage is between a man and a woman."

2. He's on record saying he supports Pence's "FADA" which makes it legal to discriminate against LGBT people in any way imaginable (including denying social services such as basic policing or health care services) if a person claims a sincere belief that their religion condones such discrimination. You can read more of it here, this draft is well-circulated: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/2802 (fun fact, this law also makes it illegal for the States or any Corporation to have any rules that might curtial these actions, so as a business owner a manager could fire a gay person and you couldn't punish them for it).

And then this week, we saw Trump's admin immediately pull back protections put in place to keep trans children safe and provide them life-saving medical interventions.

The White House hasn't been this overtly homophobic since Reagan's pressec and the press pit laughed at gay men dying of AIDS.

I'm not sure why the guy waves a rainbow flag once and suddenly we're all supposed to ignore his policy promises. He said he'd sign FADA and unless something dramatic changes, he's going to get the opportunity to. Claims of an anti-LGBT stance and homophobia seem fairly well founded at this point.

Post reply on HN