Amazon Go • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Go

#381

Post by kristofferR » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

swalsh wrote: post #334

MatekCopatek wrote: post #5

When I started reading the description, I thought: "someone finally delivered on that RFID pitch of just walking out of the store". Was surprised that it's actually computer vision.

The problem is RFID, while cheap... is not cheap enough. It's still most economical to keep RFID on the case level. It's also really easy to take the RFID tag out of a product. Machine vision is likely the cheaper/more secure approach.

This doesn't seem like the kind of store concept where 10c/product would be too expensive.

Re: Amazon Go

#382

Post by djsumdog » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

Magnets wrote: post #148

bbrks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, Tesco have been running a 'Scan as you Shop'[0] thing for a couple of years now. Customers pick up a scanner as they enter, scan their items as they go into their cart, and they have special checkouts which read your scanner. There's a random chance that your scanner will be audited by a human against the contents of your shopping cart. Usually the first time you use it, then it backs off. [0] http://www.t…

Tesco started that back in the late 90s and Sainsburys also did it 5+ years ago, then Tesco seems to have had another go at it recently. edit: Safeway was first, in 1997 The Camden store illustrates the progress Safeway has made in other directions too. As part of its customer friendliness, Safeway was the first of the major food multiples to introduce self-scanning, the system it calls Shop & Go. http://www.manageme…

Huh...I had travelled around the UK/Ireland last year and I don't think I saw any of these. Maybe I was hitting the wrong stores, or people were using them and I didn't recognize them.

Re: Amazon Go

#383

Post by Someone » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:23 PM UTC

tgb wrote: post #343

Someone wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1% is a decent average margin in a grocery store ( http://smallbusiness.chron.com/industry-standard-gross-margi... ). So, it would require a $10 item to break even on a €0.10 tag.

I don't think you can make that conclusion. Presumably this store will be saving money on cashiers by instead using RFIDs.

The article I quoted claims 1% is the _gross_ margin, in which case my argument is valid. I now think that is incorrect, as other high-ranking Google results claim it is the _net_ margin.

Re: Amazon Go

#384

Post by BoysenberryPi » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

pimlottc wrote: post #344

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How it works sections aren't designed for the technically inclined user they are designed for the layman.

They don't have to get intensely technical but they could say a little more than basically, "magic".

Except to a layman it is basically magic. Using X technology we did Y so you can do Z. I'm sure in coming months you'll get the in depth technical explanation you are looking for but this announcement isn't for you it's for the average person.

Re: Amazon Go

#385

Post by CodeSheikh » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:24 PM UTC

zaargy wrote: post #209

CodeSheikh wrote: post #201

Guys this is not good. As much as I love the convenience of pick-and-go, this eventually will prove out to be drastic for a variety of bad socioeconomic reasons, that most of us are already aware of. Small businesses were already suffering at the hands of Amazon Prime. Now Amazon Go wants to not only kick out those businesses out of the block but it also wants to take away jobs of small retail salesperson. Unacceptab…

Like it or not, this is the future. If Amazon don't do it then someone else will. People want cheap goods and this will give them cheaper goods. The solution to your worries is a universal basic income.

Try to become a part of the solution not part of the problem. As an engineer, this is a mesmerizing and a very appreciative tech. Kudos. As a (selfless) neighbor, I can never be happy to see unemployed neighbors. Sure we can create these autonomous technologies, but we also should be active in policy-making for our cities e.g. if 10 jobs are being displaced then collectively what are we doing to create 10 more jobs.

Profits earned from Amazon Go are not going to get reinvested in cities. A small portion of it would be divided as payrolls among engineers and people who would manage these Go stores but a large chunk would go in deep pockets of Bezos' and Amazon investors'.

Re: Amazon Go

#386

Post by csears » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:26 PM UTC

erelde wrote: post #44

Someone1234 wrote: post #18

Companies have been discussing "checkout-less" stores since forever, but nobody has been brave enough to do it due to the perceived threat of shoplifting. And while shoplifting is a legitimate threat, are non-shoplifters going to be turned into shoplifters without a checkout? Are normal shoplifters stopped by checkouts? These are the core questions, and until it is tested nobody will know for sure. Target is getting…

I'll admit, my first thoughts were "How can I exploit this system? How would I place sensors? What kind of sensors? Pressure plates? Cameras? IR trackers?" etc etc. And I'm no shoplifter, never done that, I just tinker with stuff all the time. It's a kind of occupational psychosis. Same with lockpicks.

I thought it might be vulnerable to a human DOS-attack, where a flash mob of shoppers wearing similar cloths and/or masks all walk in at the same time, grab items, pass them around, and then all try to leave at once.

Re: Amazon Go

#387

Post by delegate » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

Look, I know this might not be a popular view here on HN, but I think this is useless. And bad.

I'm not talking about the technology behind it (I think it's an amazing achievement)..

I live in Barcelona and I have at least 5 medium-sized supermarkets within 5 minutes walking distance from my home. Plus there are several smaller shops that sell fruits and vegetables.

I know all the people who work in these supermarkets. The cashier in the supermarket downstairs always sings a quiet song while she scans my products, she knows my daughter and she's always nice and friendly.

The cashier in the other store talks to the customers. She stops scanning and starts talking while the line waits. Some customers might join the conversation. I know she has an old cat that eats an unlimited amount of food if allowed to do so...

There are similar stories about other shops in the neighbourhood - they come to work, they serve the people in the neighbourhood, they go home. They do this until they retire.

These people like their jobs because we respect them for what they do, so they feel useful and they work hard.

I don't mind waiting in line for 3 minutes. Or 5. It's never longer than that, even if the cashier discusses the latest news with the old lady.

The humanity of it has value for us here and that value is greater than the time we'd save by removing the people from the shops.

Re: Amazon Go

#388

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

Karunamon wrote: post #277

monsieurbanana wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the store's fault when you selfishly and silently put perishable goods in non-refrigerated areas so they can spoil? I find it really annoying when people put words into somebody's mouth. Misplaced perishable goods are certainly a problem, but not the one they're discussing right now.

We are talking about people misplacing goods in a store, are we not? Perishable goods are a subclass of goods in a store, are they not?

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Go

#389

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

anonbanker wrote: post #345

monochromatic wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't like the company that you wageslaves work for, so I'm going to create a big stinky mess for y'all to clean up. (And also waste some trivial amount of the company's money.)"

If this was the only tactic one could use to waste money at Walmart, then yes, it would be trivial. Now, imagine a team of 20 people doing this, as well as numerous other tactics to waste their money, weekly at 5 locations in a city. the numbers start adding up real quick. the wageslaves don't care. Wal-Mart pays them low enough that the company assists them with acquiring welfare benefits to supplement their incomes…

> Such a scheme does not ingratiate your employees to helping with loss prevention.

In retail, especially low-end, employee theft is the main thing loss prevention deals with.

Re: Amazon Go

#390

Post by thesimpsons1022 » Mon, Dec 05, 2016, 5:27 PM UTC

this is great! since the election my one purpose in life has been to automate every job of the "white working class" because of what they've decided to do to us. With this and Otto and Uber it won't be long.