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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#371

Post by austhrow743 »

throwaway17824 wrote: post #309
nativeit wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did we aggressively legislate against, search for, monitor, investigate, and prosecute owning firearms?

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

Most deaths doesn't necessarily mean most deaths that people care about.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#372

Post by austhrow743 »

dartharva wrote: post #364
derektank wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no concrete evidence that anyone besides Epstein (and by extension Maxwell, who assisted Epstein) actually abused children. Besides the testimony of Virginia Giuffre, nobody else has claimed they were sexually assaulted as minors (Sjoberg was groped by Prince Andrew at Epstein’s home when she was in her early 20s). And neither the FBI nor the Palm Beach PD found physical evidence of such or communications bet…

Just in case someone might mistake this comment to imply there wasn't actually a large-scale CSA-as-a-service business happening on his island - FBI has officially declared the number of minor victims to be over a thousand: https://www.justice.gov/opa/media/1407001/dl It was an industrial-scale racket. It is impossible for that kind of number of victims to be just for one person or group's recreation.

I think you linked to the wrong document, unless you're taking "Epstein had over ten thousand pornographic videos and images" as "there were over one thousand minor victims" which doesn't follow as a logical conclusion.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#373

Post by sneak »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

It’s nothing to do with CSAM and all about surveilling who has which files and when, and who they send them to.

Even ADP in iCloud sends the hashes of the plaintext to Apple, non-e2ee. This allows them to see who has unique files, and when, and the networks of users to which they spread, and when.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#374

Post by superxpro12 »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

Yeah DUH. its a trojan horse to eliminate any privacy in the populace, except for the government and elites, of course. They get privacy. You dont. How else are they going to maintain control over the populace?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#375

Post by kelnos »

throwaway17824 wrote: post #309
nativeit wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did we aggressively legislate against, search for, monitor, investigate, and prosecute owning firearms?

I'm taking a guess at what the OP meant, but people focus on assault rifles and high-capacity magazines. Supposedly most incidents and deaths are caused by handguns. They're more affordable, and easy to discretely keep on your person. A data-driven policy would focus on them first, but it's easier to rile up the public about AR-15s so we keep doing the less-effective thing.

Are handgun deaths predominantly murder, or are they mostly accidents? If the latter, then I don't think it's odd to go after AR-15-type weapons, which usually end up killing people during mass shooting incidents.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#376

Post by kelnos »

xethos wrote: post #355
derektank wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blathering on about how guns are the last line of defense against a tyrannical government No, it’s because the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution and the constitution requires an extreme super majority to update. A 50%+1 majority is all that’s required to ban civilian ownership of guns in most parliamen…

> the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution The right to bear arms does not necessarily mean firearms. Arms doesn't necessarily even have to include firearms, and America is already pretty damn strict about certain armaments, such as sub-machine guns. Americans are allowed to have certain firearms, sometimes, in some places. I'm not sure how one squares that with the blanket statement fr…

You can personally interpret the US constitution however you want, I suppose, but the only interpretation that matters is that of the Supreme Court. And they have held over and over that 2A includes a right to many different kinds of firearms.

I feel like you're the one who is poorly informed?

(For the record, I am in favor of strong gun control laws, but your statement just ignores reality.)

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#377

Post by kelnos »

wang_li wrote: post #332
mschuster91 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc) Well, most of Europe simply has banned guns in the hands of civilians instead, so that's some data as well. The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blather…

No part of Europe has “simply banned guns”. Some countries have stricter policies but it’s possibly to own a gun in every country. Some countries are famous for gun ownership, eg switzerland that expects men to keep their militarily issued gun in the home.

I'd be a lot more comfortable with gun ownership in the US if we could require every owner to have military-level firearms training and certification.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#378

Post by eecc »

kelnos wrote: post #377
wang_li wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No part of Europe has “simply banned guns”. Some countries have stricter policies but it’s possibly to own a gun in every country. Some countries are famous for gun ownership, eg switzerland that expects men to keep their militarily issued gun in the home.

I'd be a lot more comfortable with gun ownership in the US if we could require every owner to have military-level firearms training and certification.

Well, that was the whole point of the 2A: effective preparedness.

But gun manufacturers ragebaited this exceptionally effective marketing campaign around their products and here’s where you folks stand

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#379

Post by Spooky23 »

xethos wrote: post #355
derektank wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The only reason why the US is so extremely lax on firearms is because people keep blathering on about how guns are the last line of defense against a tyrannical government No, it’s because the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution and the constitution requires an extreme super majority to update. A 50%+1 majority is all that’s required to ban civilian ownership of guns in most parliamen…

> the right to own firearms is very explicitly stated in our constitution The right to bear arms does not necessarily mean firearms. Arms doesn't necessarily even have to include firearms, and America is already pretty damn strict about certain armaments, such as sub-machine guns. Americans are allowed to have certain firearms, sometimes, in some places. I'm not sure how one squares that with the blanket statement fr…

The more… enthusiastic gun people among us think that the national firearms act (which strictly regulates automatic weapons) is an abomination.

It’s unique in that it’s the only right that aligns with business marketing. Peddling fear, mostly to insecure men, has sold hundreds of millions of guns.

The fetishized nature of modern gun culture killed, in addition to people, a lot of shooting sports and hunting.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#380

Post by EagnaIonat »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #369
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

The lowest of the low hanging political points scoring fruit will be picked. I make this point on HN each time it comes up: Dealing with actual CSA requires actual people going to investigate actual reports of children's living conditions out in the real world, not "scanning digital files". Seems obvious when you say it like that, but the alternative seems to still score heavily on the political scale. Ironically, sp…

> Seems obvious when you say it like that,

That's exactly what happens. CSAM has two parts to it.

The first is the known and most horrific videos of CP out there. These aren't shared, instead only hashes are used to determine if the image/video matches. It's next to impossible to get an mis-hit on that.

The second is nudity and age detection AI. Apple has this on their devices, but warns the user before sharing not reporting.

It normally takes more than one hit to get flagged for investigation. At that point law enforcement are informed and take over.

The majority of investigations are children sending naked pictures of themself to their friends.

So it is absolutely being used as the purpose to protect children and it's amazing how many people don't realise how it works when they are very transparent about it.

Of course it is not without its issues that need to fixed. For example providers will just ban the person before it's determined if they broke a law or not.

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