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Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

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Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#371

Post by dep_b »

cogman10 wrote: post #172
sgt wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally though, web developers are of lower quality than native app devs. Often little or no consideration to the layers below, and their focus is more on security rather than speed.

Funnily, I'd say the reason web apps tend to be worse than native apps is because the web is so much more powerful and flexible. For a native app, I'm often limited to just a small set of components and maybe images I can put on those components. Animations are out of the picture. Configuring colors is sometimes not available but always painful (every component needs it tweaked, there's no universal way to change it)…

Yet I never had issues doing any design thrown at me using AppKit, UIKit or SwiftUI.

Only storyboards and XIBs were hard to style globally.

All of the flexibility, but a lot faster than web

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#372

Post by agumonkey »

sirwitti wrote: post #358
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

Man, I just realized it's been 20 years for me. I vaguely remember sometime in 2006 that Windows Vista was inevitable and decided to switch to linux. I don't care about fussing around and just need a useful machine for work and fun. Linux is far from perfect for me but the amount of crap windows or macos throw at me when I have to use them is almost comical.

I moved long ago to use a fully legally free OS, but at that time, win7 or even win10 weren't bad neighbors to visit from time to time. But win11 became a weird new-trend copycat with even more bloat.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#373

Post by rafterydj »

bluGill wrote: post #209
rafterydj wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a product manager but I habitually try to play devil's advocate as one. I think it's popularity, full stop. You _could_ vibe code a native app no problem - but then you're targeting one set of hardware. If you're already just vibing it, why not make something that will work cross-platform while you're at it? And if an LLM is prompted with that, they'll usually go with the popular choice: web app on Electron.

There are plenty of cross platform options. I write with Qt for example.

Yes but Qt comes with the drawbacks of being tied to Qt.

With Electron + React, you'd be able to rip out any components you need and place them in other web apps. The browser is (psychologically) avoiding vendor dependencies to a greater degree than other options.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#374

Post by agumonkey »

ryandvm wrote: post #144
reaperducer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just Windows. It's everything Microsoft. What steams my clams is that I can press Reply in Outlook and be halfway through the first sentence of my message before the reply window even opens. (M4 Pro) Almost every time I use Outlook, I have to rewrite my first sentence because half of it was typed before Outlook was finished doing whatever it does in the background. This doesn't happen with other mail clients…

You're right, but it's not just Microsoft. I've been doing software engineering for 20+ years. I've been at a lot of different companies and at almost every single one I'm always kind of flabbergasted at how shabby the engineering is. I think maybe ONCE in my career did I work somewhere that I was proud of the engineering we were doing and it was a 18 month consulting gig at a startup with 3 engineers. This isn't hub…

I get a weird feeling when I watch vga/dos programs like Quattro Pro 5. These were large programs quite well done, on very very limited machines. Today apps may not even provide that much (but they are fully networked, maybe more extensible).

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#375

Post by anakaine »

zormino wrote: post #363
raincole wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

I actually agree, Linux is well past the point a minimally tech competent person can use it fine, but it doesn't solve the fact that even if Linux was flawless, there is still a switching cost in time, relearning a new system, and worst (best?) of all of you decide you are willing to do all of that now you can get entirely lost in the weeds picking a distro. I used Linux all through university, then went back to wind…

Theres a lot of friction from enterprise Microsoft admins, too. "But how will I group policy and Entra xyz?" is a concern I hear regularly, but still struggle to educate them away from.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#376

Post by saltcured »

RajT88 wrote: post #354
raincole wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop! > At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up. Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

Not lifelong, but I've been using Linux since 1993. Through subconscious selective pressure, I only have things lying around that are useful with Linux.

It's kind of liberating, to be able to ignore a huge amount of crap in the market because you can tell it is just some sort of delivery vector for proprietary Windows drivers and their dodgy installers.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#377

Post by IIsi50MHz »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #68
fg137 wrote: post #26

The biggest issue I have with new outlook is meeting notifications (reminders) on Windows. I see a freaking loading screen with the Outlook logo for 5 seconds before the window is updated with the meeting name along with a button to dismiss it. Yes that's everything in there. How does Microsoft think this is ok?

Clicking a Teams meeting link from Outlook Calendar opens the pre-meeting screen to allow enable/disable of camera/microphone, plus it also loads up a little reminder window with Join and Dismiss buttons _over the top_ of the Join button of the pre-meeting screen. Every time. And then there's the fact that, if Teams wasn't already loaded, you can be up five minutes late for a meeting waiting for Teams to roll out of…

Quite often when I use a 1990s system, I encounter several things that are instantaneous, while modern machines take several seconds.

Like, sending an empty folder to the bin:

Win 10 this afternoon took seconds to display a dialog box with no content, the a couple seconds to add a progressbar, then a second to add the cancel button, then multiple seconds to finish showing progress.

But at home a 1991s system with System 7 completes the same task instantly without needing a progressbar.

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#378

Post by fluffybucktsnek »

RajT88 wrote: post #354
raincole wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

2026 is the year of Linux on the Desktop! > At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up. Lifelong Windows user here. If you could get the kind of driver support you have with Windows for just whatever the fuck you have lying around, I'd probably use my Ubuntu laptop as more of a daily driver.

Unless your hardware is exotic (or actively anti-consumer), most devices are well supported. If you wouldn't mind, what issues did you have recently?

Re: Microsoft new Outlook takes 10 seconds to do what Outlook Classic does instantly

#380

Post by malbs »

raincole wrote: post #351
modriano wrote: post #288

Up until 2019, Windows was my daily driver and had been for the prior ~20. years. I had been regularly ssh-ing into Linux machines, but it didn't seem like a place I could live. Then, in 2019, I built a PC and, wanting to get more proficient in Linux environments, I made it a dual boot setup with a Ubuntu desktop partition and a Windows partition, expecting I'd inevitably get frustrated on the Linux partition by side…

> It has been polished and ready since at least 2019. Linux people said things like this in 2019 too. It's always "been improved a lot in the past few years" (not saying this statement can't be true.) At this point I'm convinced that no matter how much or little Linux desktop is improved, its market share is solely dependent on how much Microsoft fucked up.

Agreed. 2026 was the year. The degradation of win 11 , forced win accounts everywhere. I switched to Linux Mint, and I haven't switched back. Missing out on a few random games that aren't supported yet, I decided it was time to get rid of windows on my desktop.

I do have one windows machine still, and thats my simrig, this is a purpose built computer+rig specifically for iRacing and iRacing have said that they won't support linux, and so w/ that, I'll keep it in windows, until they change their position.

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