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Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

arstechnica.com

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Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#371

Post by rootusrootus »

Zigurd wrote: post #167
rootusrootus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not any kind of Elon fan, but I think it is a little more nuanced than that. FSD is definitely more advanced than any regular competition. It is not as capable as Waymo, that is for sure, but that is not a car you can own.

Apart from the technical limitations of FSD, Elon hasn't thought through the business model. Claiming that Tesla cars will be capable of turning into robotaxis seemed plausible a decade ago before all the negative externalities of Airbnb became widely known. Waymo isn't just the Waymo Driver technology and sensor suite. It's charging and cleaning depots. It's product support both for the customer and the vehicle that…

> Elon hasn't thought through the business model

I think I see it more bluntly. Elon knows exactly what his buisiness model is: hype. It has been wildly successful. The cars are okay, but the hype surrounding them is extremely disproportionate.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#372

Post by Gareth321 »

ehfeng wrote: post #231

I've been using Autopilot for years, but recently subscribed to FSD for a long weekend roadtrip. It changed my mind on the value of FSD. While unfortunate for consumers, it cleans up the offerings. For four years, I didn't buy FSD because Autopilot was good enough to cover highway driving and I couldn't justify $99/month for the "last mile". If you strip out Autopilot and given the latest FSD, I would 100% buy the FS…

I agree. The current price is 7/8 years of ownership, which can't be transferred. The subscription currently makes a lot more sense. Personally, I think if one buys a Tesla today they should impute the cost of an FSD subscription over the expected lifetime. It's excellent. If that cost is too high, fair enough. Buy a less smart car.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#373

Post by rcxdude »

eudamoniac wrote: post #370
idibiks wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be precisely the divide I mentioned above. One is focused on whole-picture outcomes, the other is focused on making sure “bad guys” have a bad time (regardless of how that fits into the larger picture). Folks on either side of this divide tend to think the other is actually, factually nuts.

You are ignoring the big picture outcome of the resultant culture that develops in a society in which criminals can easily flee and not be chased. Culture shifts for the worse in an environment that is less likely to catch, arrest, or prosecute criminals. Trust and norms erode. The factual outcomes almost don't matter; what matters is perception among the masses. For example, if people largely believe that shopliftin…

I broadly agree that both are important, but I think the difference lies in the level to which the person feels about the two scenarios you post. Some people are far more upset about the former than the latter (and also consider what happens if you modulate it by the crime committed).

(And of course it's not a strict either/or as well: you can have a rules of engagement for such things. e.g. in the UK the police are not blanket banned from pursuing a fleeing vehicle, but they need to have had appropriate training and do so only in particular circumstances)

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#374

Post by 1718627440 »

ajross wrote: post #320
digitalPhonix wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's... a car. You already pay a monthly fee Eh? Insurance? Registration? Not a fee but ok, ongoing cost. That doesn’t justify more ongoing costs. > FSD is in fact market leading. The article and the discussion is about autopilot, not FSD.

> That doesn’t justify more ongoing costs. It makes the idea of a putative consumer who refuses to pay ongoing costs for their car a little silly though. Argue about whether the product value is worth the cost, not from a position of "people won't pay any more for their already extremely expensive vehicles". > The article and the discussion is about autopilot, not FSD. The fee under discussion is literally the cost o…

I'm not repaying for the same fuel, I am paying for new fuel. I'm not rebuying for the same insurance, I pay for the potential accidents in a time frame. With registration I am paying for the wear I am inflicting on the public roads for a time frame. I expect to own the car and it is staying the same. Paying for it again is called renting.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#375

Post by array_key_first »

ajross wrote: post #362
array_key_first wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's entirely different on a technical level, because waymos always drive themselves. The human operators don't drive, and in fact can't, they can only make decisions that the car then executes. Waymos are autonomous vehicles, Tesla has some vehicles which may operate autonomously in certain circumstances. There's a big difference.

Waymo's operators can absolutely control the vehicles directly. I'm not sure what you're trying to cite here. The only effective difference in architecture here is where, physically, the backup operator sits. I know it's upsetting to think that someone you hate has a good product, but... they do. Arguing on the internet isn't rolling back the launch.

They can't, they don't have a steering wheel or remote controller or anything. And this is supported by the fact that waymos are actually level 4 autonomous, and Tesla's are not.

This has nothing to do with Elon musk. From a purely technical standpoint, no - Tesla DOES NOT have autonomous vehicles to the level of their competitors. It's not a matter of opinion.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#376

Post by dalyons »

sizzle wrote: post #286
dalyons wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have a 2020 outback, and I didnt evaluate the lane keeping as part of the purchase decision. But since then i have rented a ton of different cars for work travel, and have realized surbaru has the best system out there, outside of truly premium cars / software cars like tesla. Some of them (chevvy) are outright dangerous. Its surprising because in every other way subaru's electronic / software sucks :)

Chevy Supercruise and hands on lane centering is excellent in my experience.

I guess I didn’t get one with supercruise

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#377

Post by Sparyjerry »

MarkusWandel wrote: post #29

Wait a minute. My recent-ish car has LKAS. It recognizes white lines (or possibly curbs too) and if both boundaries of the lane are recongized, will steer for you - for 10 seconds maybe, before it nags you provide some steering input. But in those 10 seconds it's perfectly capable of smoothly steering around bends in the road on its own. And it is a useful safety feature even if only nudging the steering wheel while…

You don't have to pay for what was previously called autopilot. This title is blatantly false. You only play for FSD which drives from parked to parked.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#378

Post by Sparyjerry »

thewebguyd wrote: post #67
MarkusWandel wrote: post #29

Wait a minute. My recent-ish car has LKAS. It recognizes white lines (or possibly curbs too) and if both boundaries of the lane are recongized, will steer for you - for 10 seconds maybe, before it nags you provide some steering input. But in those 10 seconds it's perfectly capable of smoothly steering around bends in the road on its own. And it is a useful safety feature even if only nudging the steering wheel while…

Yeah I don't get Tesla's move here. Lane Keep Assist has been a standard feature in most new cars, EV or not, starting around ~2019ish. IIRC, the EU now has regulations mandating lane keep assist in all new vehicles sold. Heck, a cheap base model Maza 3 I rented had lane keep assist. Tesla only stands to lose by gatekeeping what's now a basic feature behind a paywall.

This article is completely false. What was previously called autopilot is rebraned and still free. FSD is what is 99/month.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#379

Post by Sparyjerry »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #22

These sort of shenanigans for even basic lanekeeping makes a very strong case for more open source solutions like comma

Basic lanekeeping is still free but changed the name to Traffic-Aware Cruise Control with Autosteer due to lawsuits. This article is just more anti-tesla propaganda from democrats who hate that Elon supported Trump.

Re: Tesla kills Autopilot, locks lane-keeping behind $99/month fee

#380

Post by Sparyjerry »

YY59487598347 wrote: post #37

Do BYD and other Chinese EVs have this insane subscription scheme for basic features on their cars, or is that only a feature of North American/European manufacturers?

This article is purely a lie. It still comes with Traffic-Aware Cruise Control with Autosteer free (renamed autopilot).
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