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Everyone in Seattle hates AI

jonready.com

371–380 of 1001 posts

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one HAS to use AI. Well… That's no longer true, is it? My partner (IT analyst) works for a company owned by a multinational big corporation, and she got told during a meeting with her manager that use of AI is going to become mandatory next year. That's going to be a thing across the board. And have you called a large company for any reason lately? Could be your telco provider, your bank, public transport compan…

> My partner (IT analyst) works for a company owned by a multinational big corporation, and she got told during a meeting with her manager that use of AI is going to become mandatory next year. That's going to be a thing across the board. My multinational big corporation employer has reporting about how much each employee uses AI, with a naughty list of employees who aren't meeting their quota of AI usage.

Nothing says "this product is useful" quite like forcing people to use it and punishing people who don't. If it was that good, there'd be organic demand to use it. People would be begging to use it, going around their boss's back to use it.

The fact that companies have to force you to use it with quotas and threats is damning.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#372
post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

Maybe not what the OP or article is talking about, but it's super frustrating recently dealing with non/less technical mgrs, PMs, etc who now think they have this Uno card to bypass technical discussion just because they vibe coded some UI demo. Like no shit, that wasn't the hard part. But since they don't see the real/less visible past like data/auth/security, etc they act like engineers "aren't trying", less innova…

My experience too. They are so convinced that AI is magical that pushing back makes you look bad.

Then things don't turn out as they expected and you have to deal with a dude thinking his engineers are messing with him.

It's just boring.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#373
post #116

Was this written by AI? It sounds like the writing style of an elementary school student. Almost entirely made of really simple sentence structures, and for whatever reason I find it really annoying to read.

It has all the signs. Em-dashes. That distinct way of using short sentences to drive a point. Like this.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#374
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. "Engineers don't try" doesn’t refer to trying out AI in the article. It refers to trying to do something constructive and useful outside the usual corporate churn, but having given up on that because management is single-mindedly focused on AI. One way to s…

“Lost all ambition for anything else” is a funny way for the article to frame “hate being forced to run on the hampster wheel on ai, because an exec with the power to fire everyone is foaming at the mouth about ai and seemingly needs everyone to use it”

To add another layer to it, the reason execs are foaming at the mouth is because they are hoping to fire the as many people as possible. Including those who implemented whatever AI solution in the first place.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

I’ve been an engineer for 20 years, for myself, small companies, and big tech, and now working for my own saas company. There are many valid critiques of AI, but “there’s not much there” isn’t one of them. To me, any software engineer who tries an LLM, shrugs and says “huh, that’s interesting” and then “gets back to work” is completely failing at their actual job, which is using technology to solve problems. Maybe AI…

> There are many valid critiques of AI, but “there’s not much there” isn’t one of them.

I have solved more problems with tools like sed and awk, you know, actual tools, more than I’ve entered tokens into an LLM.

Nobody seemed to give a fuck as long as the problem was solved.

This it getting out of hand.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

I’ve been an engineer for 20 years, for myself, small companies, and big tech, and now working for my own saas company. There are many valid critiques of AI, but “there’s not much there” isn’t one of them. To me, any software engineer who tries an LLM, shrugs and says “huh, that’s interesting” and then “gets back to work” is completely failing at their actual job, which is using technology to solve problems. Maybe AI…

Punishment eh? Serves them right for being skeptical.

I've been around long enough that I have seen four hype cycles around AI like coding environments. If you think this is new you should have been there in the 80's (Mimer, anybody?), when the 'fourth generation' languages were going to solve all of our coding problems. Or in the 60's (which I did not personally witness on account of being a toddler), when COBOL, the language for managers was all the rage.

In between there was LISP, the AI language (and a couple of others).

I've done a bit more than looking at this and saying 'huh, that's interesting'. It is interesting. It is mostly interesting in the same way that when you hand an expert a very sharp tool they can probably carve wood better than with a blunt one. But that's not what is happening. Experts are already pretty productive and they might be a little bit more productive but the AI has it's own envelope of expertise and the closer you are to the top of the field the smaller your returns in that particular setting will be.

In the hands of a beginner there will be blood all over the workshop and it will take an expert to sort it all out again, quite possibly resulting in a net negative ROI.

Where I do get use out of it: to quickly look up some verifiable fact, to tell me what a particular acronym stands for in some context, to be slightly more functional than wikipedia for a quick overview of some subfield (but you better check that for gross errors). So yes, it is useful. But it is not so useful that competent engineers that are not using AI are failing at their job, and it is at best - for me - a very mild accelerator in some use cases. I've seen enough AI driven coding projects strand hopelessly by now to know that there are downsides to that golden acorn that you are seeing.

The few times that I challenged the likes of ChatGPT with an actual engineering problem to which I already knew the answer by way of verification the answers were so laughably incorrect that it was embarrassing.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#377
> But you weren't allowed to fix them—that was the AI org's turf. You were supposed to use them, fail to see productivity gains, and keep quiet.

Yep, big orgs doing big org things. Don't miss it a bit.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the most depressing things I have ever read on Hacker News. You claim to have become so de-actualized as a human being that you cannot fulfill the most basic items of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs (food, health, personal security, shelter, transportation) without the aid of an LLM.

IDK I got really sick in a foreign country, I wasn't sure how to get to the hospital and I was alone in a hotel room. I don't really know how using chatgpt to help me isn't actualizing.

If you are operating under the constraint that talking to strangers is impossible then I could see why ChatGPT feels like a godsend...

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#379

Ex-Google here; there are many people both current and past-Google that feel the same way as the composite coworker in the linked post. I haven't escaped this mindset myself. I'm convinced there are a small number of places where LLMs make truly effective tools (see: generation of "must be plausible, need not be accurate" data, e.g. concept art or crowd animations in movies), a large number of places where LLMs make…

The thing that changed my view on LLMs was solo traveling for 6 months after leaving Microsoft. There were a lot of points on the trip where I was in a lot of trouble (severe food sickness, stolen items, missed flights) where I don't know how I would have solved those problems without chatGPT helping.

This is what people used to use Google for; I remember so many times between 2000-2020 that Google saved my bacon for exactly those things (travel plans, self-diagnosis, navigating local bureaucracies, etc.)

It's a sad commentary on the state of search results and the Internet now that ChatGPT is superior, particularly since pre-knowledge-panel/AI-overview Google was superior in several ways (not hallucinating, for one, and being able to triangulate multiple sources to tell the truth).

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Health and safety seems irrelevant to me. I complain about cars, I point out "obscure" facts like that they are a major cause of lung related health problems for innocent bystanders, I don't actually ride in cars on any regular basis, I use them less in fact than I use AI. There were people at the car's introduction who made all the points I would make today. The world is not at all about fairness of benefits and imp…

> health and safety seems irrelevant to me Honestly I don’t really know what to say to that, other than it seems rather relevant to me. I don’t really know what to elaborate on given we disagree on such a fundamental level.

I for one have no idea what you mean by health and safety with respect to AI. Do you have an OSHA concern?
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