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Everyone in Seattle hates AI

jonready.com

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Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#281

Post by eschaton »

senordevnyc wrote: post #244
averyvery wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

I’ve been an engineer for 20 years, for myself, small companies, and big tech, and now working for my own saas company. There are many valid critiques of AI, but “there’s not much there” isn’t one of them. To me, any software engineer who tries an LLM, shrugs and says “huh, that’s interesting” and then “gets back to work” is completely failing at their actual job, which is using technology to solve problems. Maybe AI…

Or maybe it indicates that the person looking at the LLM and deciding there’s not much there knows more than you do about what they are and how they work, and you’re the one who’s wrong about their utility.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#282

Post by BGyss »

yieldcrv wrote: post #85

Unlike Seattle, in Los Angeles there are few software engineers but I would not utter AI at all here Its an infinite moving goalpost of hate, if its an actor, "creative", writer, AI is a monolithic doom, next its theoretical public policy or the lack thereof, and if they have nothing that affects them about it then it's about the energy use and environment nobody is going to hear about what your AI does, so don't men…

I was just about to post that this entire story could have been completely transposed to almost every conversation I've had in Los Angeles over the past year and a half. Looks like you beat me to it!

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#283

Post by gedy »

averyvery wrote: post #144
bccdee wrote: post #41

> Engineers don't try because they think they can't. This article assumes that AI is the centre of the universe, failing to understand that that assumption is exactly what's causing the attitude they're pointing to. There's a dichotomy in the software world between real products (which have customers and use cases and make money by giving people things they need) and hype products (which exist to get investors excite…

Yeah, "Engineers don't try" is a frustrating statement. We've all tried generative AI, and there's not that much to it — you put text in, you get text back out. Some models are better at some tasks, some tools are better at finding the right text and connecting it to the right actions, some tools provide a better wrapper around the text-generation process. Certain jobs are very easy for AI to do, others are impossibl…

Maybe not what the OP or article is talking about, but it's super frustrating recently dealing with non/less technical mgrs, PMs, etc who now think they have this Uno card to bypass technical discussion just because they vibe coded some UI demo. Like no shit, that wasn't the hard part. But since they don't see the real/less visible past like data/auth/security, etc they act like engineers "aren't trying", less innovative, anti-AI or whatever when you bring up objections to their "whole app" they made with their AI snoopy snow cone machine.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#284

Post by lukev »

IAmBroom wrote: post #154
lukev wrote: post #123

Interesting that this talks about people in tech who hate AI; it's true, tech seems actually fairly divided with respect to AI sentiment. You know who's NOT divided? Everyone outside the tech/management world. Antipathy towards AI is extremely widespread.

And yet there are multiple posts ITT (obviously from tech-oriented people) proclaiming that large swaths of the non-tech world love AI. An opinion I've personally never encountered in the wild.

I think they exist as a "market segment" (i.e, there are people out there who will use AI), but in terms of how people talk about it, sentiment is overwhelmingly negative in most circles. Especially folks in the arts and humanities.

The only non-technical people I know who are excited about AI, as a group, are administrator/manager/consultant types.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#285

Post by ktzar »

qoez wrote: post #108

It's probably good if some portion of the engineering culture is irrationally against AI and like refuses to adopt it sort of amish style. There's probably a ton still good work that can only be done if every aspect of a product/thing is given focused human attention to it, some that might out-compete AI aided ones.

I think you hit the nail in the head there. There's absolutely nothing we can do with AI that we can't do without it. And the level of understanding of a large codebase that a solid group of engineers has is paramount to moving fast once the product is live.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#286

Post by mips_avatar »

buildsjets wrote: post #237
mips_avatar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that changed my view on LLMs was solo traveling for 6 months after leaving Microsoft. There were a lot of points on the trip where I was in a lot of trouble (severe food sickness, stolen items, missed flights) where I don't know how I would have solved those problems without chatGPT helping.

This is one of the most depressing things I have ever read on Hacker News. You claim to have become so de-actualized as a human being that you cannot fulfill the most basic items of Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs (food, health, personal security, shelter, transportation) without the aid of an LLM.

IDK I got really sick in a foreign country, I wasn't sure how to get to the hospital and I was alone in a hotel room. I don't really know how using chatgpt to help me isn't actualizing.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#287

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ktzar wrote: post #285
qoez wrote: post #108

It's probably good if some portion of the engineering culture is irrationally against AI and like refuses to adopt it sort of amish style. There's probably a ton still good work that can only be done if every aspect of a product/thing is given focused human attention to it, some that might out-compete AI aided ones.

I think you hit the nail in the head there. There's absolutely nothing we can do with AI that we can't do without it. And the level of understanding of a large codebase that a solid group of engineers has is paramount to moving fast once the product is live.

> level of understanding of a large codebase that a solid group of engineers has is paramount to moving fast once the product is live.

Trying hiring and retaining that solid group of engineers if you are a small/mid sized company without FAANG-level resources to offer.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#288

Post by mips_avatar »

miltonlost wrote: post #229
mips_avatar wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that changed my view on LLMs was solo traveling for 6 months after leaving Microsoft. There were a lot of points on the trip where I was in a lot of trouble (severe food sickness, stolen items, missed flights) where I don't know how I would have solved those problems without chatGPT helping.

Severe food sickness? I know WebMD rightly gets a lot of hate, but this is one thing where it would be good for. Stolen items? Depending on the items and the place, possibly police. Missed flights? Customer service agent at the airport for your airline or call the airline help line.

Well I got so weak I needed to go to the hospital, and that was tough.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#289

Post by elzbardico »

pnathan wrote: post #195
groos wrote: post #20

It's not just that AI is being pushed on to employees by the tech giants - this is true - but that the hype of AI as a life changing tech is not holding up and people within the industry can easily see this. The only life-changing thing it's doing is due to a self-fulfilling prophecy of eliminating jobs in the tech industry and outside by CEOs who have bet too much on AI. Everyone currently agrees that there is no re…

As a layoff justification and a hurryup tool, it is pretty loathesome. People use their jobs for their housing, food, etc.

More than this man. AI is making me re-appreciate part of the Marxist criticism of capitalism. The concept of worker alienation could be easily extended in new forms to the labor situation in an AI-based economy. FWIW, humans derive a lot of their self-evaluation as people from labor.

Re: Everyone in Seattle hates AI

#290

Post by james_marks »

Fordec wrote: post #245
mr_toad wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember when everything had a have the word ‘digital’ in it. And I’m old enough to remember when ‘multimedia’ was a buzzword that was crammed into anywhere it would fit.

You know what, this clarifies something for me. PC, Web and Smartphone hype was based on "we can now do [thing] never done before". This time out it feels more like "we can do existing [thing], but reduce the cost of doing it by not employing people" It all feels much more like a wealth grab for the corporations than a promise of improving a standard of living for end customers. Much closer to a Cloud or Server (repl…

Yes and no. PC, Web, etc advancements were also about lowering cost. It’s not that no one could do some thing, it’s that it was too expensive for most people, e.g. having a mobile phone in the 80’s.

Or hiring a mathematician to calculate what is now done in a spreadsheet.

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