Couldn't this be explained by children being misdiagnosed as having depression?
If those children just had a temporary sadness then the placebo would appear to work?
Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
371–380 of 561 posts
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#372Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#373Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wouldn't recommend searching for "chemical imbalance debunked" unless you intend to confirm an existing bias. The internet will show you whatever you want, and there are enough people who distrust medical professionals that any search for "debunking" will be a minefield of fringe theories and grifters. I'd recommend someone start generally, searching for information about clinical depression, and then build on that…
One of the first search results for me was a paper published in Nature. Other top results were from respected institutions like the NIH and Harvard University. Hardly grifters or crazies. The caveat you cite applies to basically any and all internet (or even media) consumption, and is therefore a non-argument.
Look, I can tell you've got a chip on your shoulder about this and are probably a conspiracy theorist, so I'm not going to argue anymore.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
With both my kids in 2nd grade and my wife also a public 2nd grade teacher, I consider myself pretty aware of what kids are being taught these days. They certainly are being gradually introduced to some of the problems of the world, but I think childhood development experts would all agree that's healthy. As for them being told they're the source or victim that's hardly the case. I'm sure there are a few isolated inc…
> but I think childhood development experts would all agree that's healthy. Could it be that we think it's healthy because we can just give meds to the kids that it affects? How would someone even have the ability to say "it's healthy" - I'm struggling to think how it comes about. I think it's healthy for my kids to cry about a worm dying in the garden, but anything less than "anxiety about a dying planet"... Put it…
I grew up in the 80s and 90s. In school environmentalism was a big deal. We did conservation trips to these ecology parks, we were taught to recycle, and often watched films about animals that might die off due to climate change.
I only felt motivated to annoy my parents to recycle more. Since the effects were not directly in front of me a strong emotional reaction didn't occur.
Perhaps there are children who already have anxiety and latch onto climate change and other problems.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#375I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…
Your anecdote has nothing to do with whether it's better than a placebo or not.
A later comment notes that it works well for some patients and not others. The argument is that drugs probably don't fix things very well unless the cause is mostly just bad brain chemistry. Some people have bad brain chemistry, others have "real" (usually more external - financial, relationships, actual life issues) problems they need to fix, and hiding from them by just taking a pill to help ignore them might not work so well.
(OK bad brain chemistry is also a real problem, but one that's fixable with a pill).
Also yes that's all a bit simplified.
There's a stigma against pills for a number of reasons, some good and some bad, the fact that often they don't work being one reason.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#376Earlier quoted context omitted.
> My sister and I looked at each other and at the same time went, "Ohhhh!" I suppose the next step would be to upgrade from single-blind to double-blind, so that your mom won't know which month is the placebo month...
Interestingly my son has an identical twin! I like to joke that one is the control and sleeps in the house and the other has to sleep in the storage shed out back, and when they're 18 we'll publish a paper comparing their emotional development. :) I always thought DNA determined pretty much everything, and we raised them exactly the same, but they have distinct personalities and some different physical features, alth…
> like to joke that one is the control and sleeps in the house and the other has to sleep in the storage shed out back
Glad to see you have your priorities straight! :p
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Pills are for people who feel depressed but don't have something to be depressed about -- they have food, shelter, friends, opportunities to contribute and be productive, nothing traumatic has happened, but they feel hopeless anyway This warrants a whole different discussion, and I'll be down voted for it, but one that's never addressed: quality over quantity. Pills are the individuals response to a society that fe…
> I cured it by finding meaning and beauty in the world. That's incredibly fortunate and I'm very jealous of you. How would you recommend one goes about finding meaning and beauty? I'm fortunate to have had lots of unique experiences and traveled to lots of unique places and still haven't found the fulfillment that you seem to. That's basically what depression is: a debilitating feeling of lack of fulfillment, withou…
For what it's worth, I have dealt with pretty severe depression for most of my adult life. I am only starting to have periods of coming out when I realized that most of depressed feelings come from a place of ego. I have an identity of who I am and what I like, and I seek things in the external world which might provide meaning for me. For me, it's because I always sought value from the things around me, rather than believing that I am already enough. Every single day, I have to beat down my instincts that tell me that I am worthless and remind myself that there is more beauty in the world and it's actually absurd that I am letting society tear away from me my natural instincts to want to live and enjoy life. You have to really sit with these feelings though... like really really get to know your voice vs the internalized societal voice. I have developed "tests" that help me discern which voice is which, but it has helped a bit. Also working out and taking care of your body is a bonus, and just taking pride in like... doing things to lead a peaceful life is underrated.
Hope you feel better.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
I, like every other person who hasn't been living under a rock, am abundantly aware of corruption in Big Pharma and medicine. If my mother and I have both taken a given well-known medication for decades and found it effectively treated a condition that may be hereditary with no negative side effects, and my son is demonstrating symptoms similar to mine and my mother's, is it unreasonable to tolerate my son trying the…
My deepest views on this subject are personal, subjective, and more controversial. I have watched several family members take antidepressants for upwards of four decades, and I myself suffered terrible depression throughout my childhood and teenage years. Despite my depression, I always avoided antidepressants for some ineffable reason-- a hunch, a nebulous suspicion, I'm not sure what to call it. Somewhere in my mid…
> . Despite my depression, I always avoided antidepressants for some ineffable reason-- a hunch, a nebulous suspicion, I'm not sure what to call it.
Yeah, I did that too, then I took some and I was less goddamn depressed aftwards.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#379I was very young when my mom started Prozac but do remember how angry and sad she was before compared to after. Years later there was a time when me and my sister noticed our mom was acting a bit strange -- more snappish and irritable than usual, and she even started dressing differently. Then at dinner she announced proudly that she had been off Prozac for a month. My sister and I looked at each other and at the sam…
> my 7-year-old son just started half that dose This is horrifying.
> This is horrifying.
I agree with this.
I've learned a lot through life, one thing I've learned is about detrimental long term physical and even social effects of antidepressants, and other medications like adderal. Both I used to take.
At this point in my life, if I realized my parents gave me an antidepressant prescription when I was SEVEN years old because I said something stupid WHEN I WAS SEVEN I'd be very disturbed and disappointed in them, I'd definitely give both of them a solid scolding.
Before you respond to this remember I'm talking about me. Not your kid or your friends kid or your cousins kid.
EDIT: Quick edit to add when I was a kid I was a total outcast, I was weird, anxious, and definitely often depressed. A lot of kids in my religious schooling systems were.
Re: Prozac 'no better than placebo' for treating children with depression, experts
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
My deepest views on this subject are personal, subjective, and more controversial. I have watched several family members take antidepressants for upwards of four decades, and I myself suffered terrible depression throughout my childhood and teenage years. Despite my depression, I always avoided antidepressants for some ineffable reason-- a hunch, a nebulous suspicion, I'm not sure what to call it. Somewhere in my mid…
> . Despite my depression, I always avoided antidepressants for some ineffable reason-- a hunch, a nebulous suspicion, I'm not sure what to call it. Yeah, I did that too, then I took some and I was less goddamn depressed aftwards.
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