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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#371
post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will be very surprised if DHH fixes something that hasn't been properly solved in mainline Linux distros for years. (decades?)

At the very minimum, omarchy and omakub already provide out of the box seamless fixes for all the common issues that are “fixed” but need tedious involved configuration nonetheless.

even the annoying OOM stuff that makes all OS stop to a crawl?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#372
post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

This is not a Linux issue (Though the hibernate issues are!). It's a PC issue. Microsoft went on a crusade making hardware vendors implement S0 next to S3 but most hardware vendors now _only_ implement S0. So that the laptop can keep phoning home and download updates etc whilst closed. Which means it's impossible to turn off the CPU during suspend. it's always on. PC as a laptop platform is a complete joke.

Shouldn't that mean that the relatively open platforms like Framework should work better, since they lack the incentive to defy the user/owner like the locked-down platforms do? What would prevent Framework or anything similar from implementing the other sleep states?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#373

Battery life is the only thing stopping me from getting out of the Apple ecosystem. As soon as a viable Linux laptop with "enough" battery life becomes available, I'll make the switch. At that point there's nothing on Apple side that couldn't be done better in Linux (with a bit of work, but that's okay). I travel a lot, and often on standby for work during that time. I need to be confident that when I pull the laptop…

Instead of a hot-swappable battery, why not just carry a large battery-bank that can charge your laptop over USB-C? That way you don't even need to reboot. Browsing around on Amazon, I see there's actually quite a few battery banks that with over 60W of output, and ~100Wh of capacity for under 100€

> why not just carry a large battery-bank

Not being allowed to use those on an airplane could be one reason.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel your pain here; I remember my transition from Debian to MacOS. I’ve used DOS, Windows, Linux, and MacOS — each full-time for more than a decade. The switching pain is real, and some things still feel wrong to me after I got to love them on a prior OS. E.g., in Windows apps, menu items are keyboard-addressable by default. This is brilliant for accessibility, and for accustomed power users. MacOS has no _by defa…

> E.g., in Windows apps, menu items are keyboard-addressable by default. This is brilliant for accessibility, and for accustomed power users. MacOS has no _by default_ equivalent. Cmd-Shift-? (really, Cmd-?) You can begin using arrow keys from there, or start typing to search the menu items of the foreground app You can also assign arbitrary hotkeys to any application's menu items in the OS system preferences

Yeah, I know about this; it’s not the same. In Windows apps following the standard (which all good ones do) _every menu item_ is keyboard addressable. Something several submenus in is trivially accessible by muscle memory: ALT-I-R-C to resize an image without constraints, e.g.

MacOS allows easy navigation of the menu, but does not guarantee that each item is hotkey-addressable.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Less than a minute” is going to feel horribly slow to people that are used to instant-resume and not having to think about shutdown vs. sleep. You might be okay with it, but I suspect most consumers today won’t be.

This, so much. I read that comment and immediately recoiled at the idea of waiting "less than a minute" to be able to do anything. I'd estimate that 1/3 of the time I even open my laptop, I'm done with what I needed in less time than that boot up sequence takes and have closed it and moved on to something else. So often I just pop it open, do/check something and close it within seconds. I go _months_ without rebootin…

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there’s much framework can do about this. The same happens with Windows on HP and Dell laptops, except windows tends to quickly enter hibernation (if it doesn’t somehow hang and burn up your bag). We used to have better suspend before, when s3 was thing, on both Linux and windows. Maybe not as great as Macs, but way better than the current shitshow. Now I’m not saying pcs are great hardware, but I think…

>I don’t think there’s much framework can do The MacBook is an existence proof that there is something they can do.

Does Framework operate at the same abstraction level as Apple? I thought because of scale, Apple can dictate terms from its suppliers to get everything custom. I would imagine Dell, Lenovo, and HP simply don't care enough and Framework and System 76 and the like don't have enough scale to get custom parts or custom code from vendors?

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#377

Honest question, how is it possible that Macs are so much better in terms of hardware? Context: I use a MacBook at work and a Lenovo with Linux at home and now I might need to change my personal laptop, but I struggle to find (hardware) reasons why not to buy a MacBook, a MacBook Air is actually cheaper than another laptops with similar specs. There's still the ideology of repairability and openness which still plays…

I think one factor is that other companies (rightfully or not) think they have to offer a range of products that uses lots of different hardware.

Looking for a laptop at dell.com, for example, they seem to offer a choice of 7 different CPUs in 5 product lines (Latitude, Inspiron, Dell Pro, Dell Plus, Dell Pro Plus) with at least 3 different graphics cards (Intel Iris Xe, Intel Arc, and HawkPoint - UMA. I also spot a generic “Intel” that may indicate a fourth one)

Their desktops use different hardware, again, with, for example, Intel® UHD Graphics or Nvidia cards.

To me, that suggests they internally somewhat act as multiple smaller companies with smaller budgets to tune products.

Also, if they ask one of their suppliers about a performance issue, chances are the answer is “get out newest product”, not “let’s help you fix that”.

Apple doesn’t have that problem anymore for most of their hardware.

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